What Are Smallest Current US Engines?
#21
I agree, but unfortunately some of our lowest paid demographic needs the largest vehicles for work. Japan has the advantage of being densely populated. It's the auto makers that need to shape up. We all know the evolution of the internal combustion engine has been halted by big oil over the years.
Then you got people like Raphial Morgado and his MYT (massive yet tiny) engine. If this goes into some form of production, it will take the cake! Fascinating stuff for those who have not seen it. Has it's believers and critics of course.
Angel Labs :: Home
Then you got people like Raphial Morgado and his MYT (massive yet tiny) engine. If this goes into some form of production, it will take the cake! Fascinating stuff for those who have not seen it. Has it's believers and critics of course.
Angel Labs :: Home
#22
All those things you list are just the companies doing the best with what they got. What is perhaps most interesting is why battery technology has not made the types of advances that other technologies have. I am not expert on this, but I do know that funding leads to innovation and more funding makes a product viable in the market. Solar too.
Nicola Tesla's supposed electric vehicle from 1931 is the ultimate conspiracy theory on matters like these. Tesla electric car - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Supposedly the FBI confiscated all of his files at the time of his death. Who knows. It doesn't take a genius though to see how the money and oil link have been a mainstay for America's elite - who don't have a great track record in the virtuosity department.
#23
I'm not familiar with that engine, and the MYT confuses me. I liken it to some kind of rotary, but with multiple firings per cycle. ???
#24
Yeah I know. I was surprised to see that comp. ratio too.
But if you do the math, the fit still has a little edge on power density per liter.
Fiesta: 120/1.6 = 75 hp per liter
Ge8 Fit: 117/1.5 = 78 hp per liter
But of course torque plays an important role also. I'm not sure on the how much the torque is on the Fiesta.
High compression ratio engines that run on regular octane fuel is possible now a days because of the introduction of under piston oil jet/spray that cools the pistons (With the 1.8 civic engines at least.). But judging from the comp. ratio figures we are seeing with the Fit and Fiesta, it may very well be also equipped with under piston oil jet IMO.
But if you do the math, the fit still has a little edge on power density per liter.
Fiesta: 120/1.6 = 75 hp per liter
Ge8 Fit: 117/1.5 = 78 hp per liter
But of course torque plays an important role also. I'm not sure on the how much the torque is on the Fiesta.
High compression ratio engines that run on regular octane fuel is possible now a days because of the introduction of under piston oil jet/spray that cools the pistons (With the 1.8 civic engines at least.). But judging from the comp. ratio figures we are seeing with the Fit and Fiesta, it may very well be also equipped with under piston oil jet IMO.
Not as good as my CL-S 260hp/3.2L but close = 81.25 hp per liter.
S2K's are 100 hp per liter.
#25
Give us 2000 more rpms and we might be in there.
Speaking of - I saw this video last night where someone has increased their redline to what looks like 7500 rpm (claimed 8000) on a GE8 with a chip. Not sure if that did anything for them, but I thought it was cool.
YouTube - 8000rpm Honda FIT 1.5 RS
Speaking of - I saw this video last night where someone has increased their redline to what looks like 7500 rpm (claimed 8000) on a GE8 with a chip. Not sure if that did anything for them, but I thought it was cool.
YouTube - 8000rpm Honda FIT 1.5 RS
#26
Give us 2000 more rpms and we might be in there.
Speaking of - I saw this video last night where someone has increased their redline to what looks like 7500 rpm (claimed 8000) on a GE8 with a chip. Not sure if that did anything for them, but I thought it was cool.
YouTube - 8000rpm Honda FIT 1.5 RS
Speaking of - I saw this video last night where someone has increased their redline to what looks like 7500 rpm (claimed 8000) on a GE8 with a chip. Not sure if that did anything for them, but I thought it was cool.
YouTube - 8000rpm Honda FIT 1.5 RS
#27
, but even diesel passenger engines' uphill battle in the states is evidence of the efforts by big oil companies to keep us consuming and filling their coffers.
All those things you list are just the companies doing the best with what they got. What is perhaps most interesting is why battery technology has not made the types of advances that other technologies have. I am not expert on this, but I do know that funding leads to innovation and more funding makes a product viable in the market. Solar too.
Nicola Tesla's supposed electric vehicle from 1931 is the ultimate conspiracy theory on matters like these. Tesla electric car - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
All those things you list are just the companies doing the best with what they got. What is perhaps most interesting is why battery technology has not made the types of advances that other technologies have. I am not expert on this, but I do know that funding leads to innovation and more funding makes a product viable in the market. Solar too.
Nicola Tesla's supposed electric vehicle from 1931 is the ultimate conspiracy theory on matters like these. Tesla electric car - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Cell phones and laptops have given us better battery technology, but its still expensive. Unfortunately, you cant repeal laws of physics. The upcoming Nissan Leaf all electric will only come to market at a somewhat affordable price only if the UK government comes through with heavy support for the battery factory, along with a US direct subsidy per car. It will still take a $17,000 device to recharge it in 30 minutes instead of a day. An ICE powered car can be refueled in five minutes or so.
I just read the linked article. A few vacuum tubes and a six foot antenna can transmit enough power to propel a 1930's production automobile? The article pretty much stated the story as a hoax.
How much government funding do you want and do you want it permanent because the numbers sometimes just dont add up. Sometimes, no matter how much money is spent, an idea can prove impractical. Please learn some real Chemistry, Physics and Thermodynamics before buying into this conspiracy stuff.
Rant over.
#28
I agree that diesels have had problems for those reasons, but I thought low sulfur fuel was supposed to help, and it has from what I can tell by the new slew of products out there. That lack of fuel available to us is an oil company issue, no? What about biofuels and farming? Why hasn't that been promoted if it works and does not pollute?
Also, with regards to battery technology, I stated that with funding, not necessarily subsidies, it, as well as anything, can be progressed more quickly. What causes technological advancement anyways?
I'm not buying into anything. Just reporting - and you will note that I said it was the ultimate conspiracy theory. I'm not going to defend Tesla - that would be stupid. All I know about him is that he must have been pretty darn smart to have invented what he did.
Also, with regards to battery technology, I stated that with funding, not necessarily subsidies, it, as well as anything, can be progressed more quickly. What causes technological advancement anyways?
I'm not buying into anything. Just reporting - and you will note that I said it was the ultimate conspiracy theory. I'm not going to defend Tesla - that would be stupid. All I know about him is that he must have been pretty darn smart to have invented what he did.
#29
Just a modest correction. Honda has the greatest specific output non-turbo engine ever in production in the 2000 - 2003 S2000. It uses an earlier version of VTEC, and gets 240 hp from 2.0 liters. That is an incredible 120 hp/liter, and this goes with a 9000 rpm redline, since the peak hp comes at 8300 rpm.
#30
.......
Just a modest correction. Honda has the greatest specific output non-turbo engine ever in production in the 2000 - 2003 S2000. It uses an earlier version of VTEC, and gets 240 hp from 2.0 liters. That is an incredible 120 hp/liter, and this goes with a 9000 rpm redline, since the peak hp comes at 8300 rpm.
Just a modest correction. Honda has the greatest specific output non-turbo engine ever in production in the 2000 - 2003 S2000. It uses an earlier version of VTEC, and gets 240 hp from 2.0 liters. That is an incredible 120 hp/liter, and this goes with a 9000 rpm redline, since the peak hp comes at 8300 rpm.
#31
It became 2.2 liters starting MY 2004. The redline dropped from 9000 down to 8000, but the horsepower remained at 240.
#33
.......
Just a modest correction. Honda has the greatest specific output non-turbo engine ever in production in the 2000 - 2003 S2000. It uses an earlier version of VTEC, and gets 240 hp from 2.0 liters. That is an incredible 120 hp/liter, and this goes with a 9000 rpm redline, since the peak hp comes at 8300 rpm.
Just a modest correction. Honda has the greatest specific output non-turbo engine ever in production in the 2000 - 2003 S2000. It uses an earlier version of VTEC, and gets 240 hp from 2.0 liters. That is an incredible 120 hp/liter, and this goes with a 9000 rpm redline, since the peak hp comes at 8300 rpm.
Interesting comparison:
You can see the real to-the-ground HP for a stock GD Fit was tested at 95 hp in this dyno.
here is a 1.3 Litre Hayabusa dyno:
Just for fun, check out the high revs needed to overcome the limited torque on the 600cc CBR!
I'm guessing that despite the OHC layout, the Fit cannot be revved very high because of the undersquare engine. Just a guess, anyway.
BTW, torque is usually about even with an engine's displacement in cubic inches. The Fit's 1.5L is right around 91 CI.
Last edited by Occam; 05-24-2010 at 08:24 PM.
#34
[quote=Occam;860994]Is that the greatest specific output in a 4-wheeled vehicle? The bikes above clearly exceed that. I wonder if the reason that even cars like the S2000 have such low specific output compared to bikes is due to the need for low end torque to get the vehicle moving in the first place... and the fact that the strain placed on the engine by the weight of the car would likely wear the engine out very quickly. A supersport make spend most of it's lifetime cruising in the 7-9K range, with a 14,000+ redline, but it's not expected to last for 100,000 miles with only minor upkeep.
..
To the best of my knowledge the S2000 has the highest specific output for a non-turbo automobile produced in regular quantities (excluding super exotics). I might be wrong, but I hope not. For the 2.0 liter earlier year models (commonly referred to as Ap1), the peak torque is only 153 lb-ft @7500 rpm, with peak hp of 240 hp @8300 rpm. The VTEC kicks in hard at about 6000 rpm. Below that, the torque is somewhat less, only about 135 lb-ft from the curves I have seen.
The gearing of the S2000 is rather short. 6th gear at 60 mph corresponds to about 3300 rpm. Compare this to approximately 2100 rpm at that same speed for a Fit Sport with automatic.
..
To the best of my knowledge the S2000 has the highest specific output for a non-turbo automobile produced in regular quantities (excluding super exotics). I might be wrong, but I hope not. For the 2.0 liter earlier year models (commonly referred to as Ap1), the peak torque is only 153 lb-ft @7500 rpm, with peak hp of 240 hp @8300 rpm. The VTEC kicks in hard at about 6000 rpm. Below that, the torque is somewhat less, only about 135 lb-ft from the curves I have seen.
The gearing of the S2000 is rather short. 6th gear at 60 mph corresponds to about 3300 rpm. Compare this to approximately 2100 rpm at that same speed for a Fit Sport with automatic.
#35
[QUOTE=jelliotlevy;861269]
As seen above, that's not a particularly impressive specific output for a motorcycle engine mass produced by the exact same company, so there must be more to the story. I wonder if its simply because nobody would buy a car engine that had to run at 5000 RPM to roll along at 60. Yes, technologically, it's no challenge to make it rev up well beyond 10,000 RPM, but without the space and extreme weight considerations of a motorcycle, it's cheaper and more pleasing in a car to just up the displacement and enjoy better torque.
Interesting thread though.
Is that the greatest specific output in a 4-wheeled vehicle? The bikes above clearly exceed that. I wonder if the reason that even cars like the S2000 have such low specific output compared to bikes is due to the need for low end torque to get the vehicle moving in the first place... and the fact that the strain placed on the engine by the weight of the car would likely wear the engine out very quickly. A supersport make spend most of it's lifetime cruising in the 7-9K range, with a 14,000+ redline, but it's not expected to last for 100,000 miles with only minor upkeep.
..
To the best of my knowledge the S2000 has the highest specific output for a non-turbo automobile produced in regular quantities (excluding super exotics). I might be wrong, but I hope not. For the 2.0 liter earlier year models (commonly referred to as Ap1), the peak torque is only 153 lb-ft @7500 rpm, with peak hp of 240 hp @8300 rpm. The VTEC kicks in hard at about 6000 rpm. Below that, the torque is somewhat less, only about 135 lb-ft from the curves I have seen.
The gearing of the S2000 is rather short. 6th gear at 60 mph corresponds to about 3300 rpm. Compare this to approximately 2100 rpm at that same speed for a Fit Sport with automatic.
..
To the best of my knowledge the S2000 has the highest specific output for a non-turbo automobile produced in regular quantities (excluding super exotics). I might be wrong, but I hope not. For the 2.0 liter earlier year models (commonly referred to as Ap1), the peak torque is only 153 lb-ft @7500 rpm, with peak hp of 240 hp @8300 rpm. The VTEC kicks in hard at about 6000 rpm. Below that, the torque is somewhat less, only about 135 lb-ft from the curves I have seen.
The gearing of the S2000 is rather short. 6th gear at 60 mph corresponds to about 3300 rpm. Compare this to approximately 2100 rpm at that same speed for a Fit Sport with automatic.
Interesting thread though.
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