I have seen the practice of loading up car models that are popular and have above average market appeal with costly options since the introduction of the Ford Mustang in 1965.... The Datsun 240Z was one of the worse cases of this practice during the 70s.... The dealers that can't get manual shift cars network like crazy to find them for the customers that will not settle for the slush pump equipped models and as already been mentioned they are having to discount the things as a means to try and convince perspective customers they are getting a deal..... Has anyone gotten that kind of deal on a manual transmission equipped car without getting it stuck to themselves on the loan?

 

soo if anything people are paying too much for the MT cars due to an artificial shortage.

 

no offense, seems more supply and demand to me. they obviously don't sell near as many as they do AT's. that would drive the price up, but they're still cheaper than the AT so things seem just about how they should be. one day they might be the same price or more expensive for the manual only because of increasingly limited demand.

 

Hell yes they are... And willingly so, I must add.

 

Since I have been here I have never seen a post from someone wanting to convert a manual equipped car to automatic but there have been numerous people inquiring about doing the opposite. It is the same reason that it is easy to find Sport models and standard models are scarce.....PROFIT MARGIN!

 

In the UK where the demand is the opposite (sales of manuals 90% autos 10%) the cost of an auto is 800pounds ($1,300) higher. I think we're looking at actual production costs, with the same margin of profit.

Dealers may be offering better discounts on autos simply because they have more of them. This doesn't support the argument that they're making excessive profit on autos: just the opposite.

 

They will make more on the automatics in the service department over time.

 

Dealers aren't getting many Fits period due to the weakened US dollar. Importing a low dollar vehicle actually loses Honda money currently. As far as manuals go we received 2 but have 8 coming in January. Just a simple back log from suppliers.

Honda is working at a fairly quick pace to build this car over here in the near future. And Honda doesn't give a rip about a service dept. if they did we wouldn't have no tune up until 110k etc. And a dealership orders what sells we don't care about a 30 dollar tranny service that will happen 3 times in 100k. We care about selling cars.

 

Only if you fail to change the transmission fluid over time. Autos are pretty bullet proof.

• 65 Chevelle auto 160K, no transmission issues
• 78 Chevette manual 15K (everything fell apart except the transmission)
• 79 VW Sirocco manual 40K no issues
• 80 VW Dasher manual 40K no issues
• 82 Jeep CJ7 manual 84K throwout bearing
• 85 Isuzu Impulse manual 80k no issues
• 86 Toyota celica manual. 80K no issues
• 90 Toyota cressida auto 20K no issues
• 90 Isuzu Trooper manual 24K no issues
• 88 VW Jetta manual 114K Clutch
• 88 Citroen BX manual 110K (everything fell apart except the transmission)
• 94 Merc Tracer Auto 110k no issues
• 95 Nissan Quest Auto repaired under warranty at 12k, not sure the issue, nothing else to 30K
• 97 Honda Odyssey auto 225K no issues
• 98 toyota camry auto 125k no issues (still own)
• 03 Honda Accord auto 50K no issues (still own)
• 09 Solstice GXP auto (ok this is embarrassing; shows I'm biased, but it's my wife's daily driver) (still own)
• 09 Fit Auto (Still own).

I have no fears of owning either a manual or auto. I think I got burned out on manuals living in France for 4 years (the Jetta and Citroen). I just prefer driving an automatic around Atlanta. And I'll bet I got a better deal than you thpppt.

 

I have no fears of owning either a manual or auto. I think I got burned out on manuals living in France for 4 years (the Jetta and Citroen). I just prefer driving an automatic around Atlanta. And I'll bet I got a better deal than you thpppt.[/QUOTE]

What I hate to hear is how Honda dealers don't care about their service departments..... If you work in a dealership I am sure you did get a better deal than I did but I don't have to lie to make a living and my Fit will smoke yours.

 

What? That was Stevens24. I'm Steve244. Pay attention, this is going to be on the test.

 

I am terrible with numbers unless they are on a gear shift Knob.... Someone else is trying to sell another A/T Fit here on FitFreak...

 

Anytime you add high cost options to a car, the dealer profit accelerates. If you can sell all autos, then you just make more profit. Nothing wrong with profit, but forcing autos on those who want sticks is not good LONG TERM business. Taking care of customers is good long term business.

 

Damn! I never knew this would start such a fuss.

I'll be completely honest, I was a little baffled at first. I tried to say there are advantages and disadvantages to both transmissions. I didn't try to say automatics are the end all be all solution or even rationalize why I bought an automatic. All I suggested was that there are advanatges to the AT that are important to some people and there are advantages to the MT that are important to some people.

The response I got was LOL NUB LEARN TO DRIVE ONLY N00BS DRIVE AUTOMATiC CAUSE MT IS l33t.
VTEC JUST KiCK IN YO!!!11111oneoneoneeleveneleveneleven.

Okay so it was more like: "There are no advantages to driving an automatic except it makes it easy for idiots to drive. MT is superior in every way. People only drive AT because the dealer makes them or they don't know how to drive MT.

For the record I first began driving mt on my 5 speed bicycle when i was 9. Then at 11 I learned to drive the 3 speed MT LAWNMOWER which was my first experience with the clutch and it was hella fun. Then at 12 I learned to drive my first atv (which was actually a 3 wheeler, you dont see them around very often anymore) At 16 I learned to drive MT in my first car. I don't pretend like its some godly act pushing in the clutch and shifting my gear selector then letting out the clutch with just the right amount of rev match. Definitely not so much that I would consider the people who don't idiots for it. Shit, I could teach my girlfriend to do it proficently in about 45 minutes and I'm sure she'd have it mastered in about a week or two.

Anyway,
Before the dawn of the AT, there was only the MT. Back in these days everyone drove stick and everyone was happy. Then around 1940 the automatic transmission was born. Now at this point the story can end 2 ways.


1. Automatic transmissions have no real advantages:

No one buys cars with a POS automatic transmission because everyone can drive MT. The automatic transmission flops and never goes into cars in the future and everyone tries to laugh the big mistake off.

2. Automatic transmissions have Advantages.

Everyone can drive stick but some people like the CONVIENIENCE of driving an automatic so much that it gains a significant market share and is succesfully sold by GM before it spreads in the coming decades to almost every other car maker.


Guess which one happened?

(And yes, I know what the false dichotomy fallacy of logic is, the main point I am trying to demonstrate here is that the AT arose out of a desire by consumers to have it when every driver already knew how to drive MT; Thereby defeating the argument that the AT only exists because people can't drive MT)

Furthermore, working in insurance, I can tell you that the accident and claim rates for automatic and manual vehicles are nearly EXACTLY THE SAME. Within about half a percentage point for most vehicles of the same sub model (less than that for the fit sport, the claim rates are so close for the mt and at that we charge the exact same rate for either). Neither transsmission is safer than the other in real world driving conditions. That is why there is no such thing as the MT DRIVER DISCOUNT. The reality is that bad drivers are bad drivers regardless of the vehicle they drive or if they know how to drive MT or not. In fact the single BEST way for an insurance company to know how a good a person is at driving is their credit score. For whatever reason people who aren't responsible with their money aren't responsible on the road either. (Insurance companies don't check your credit to see if you are going to pay your bills, they could care less, they will just drop you if you don't pay. It's to determine a significant part of your rates and the risk you represent) Anyway, the main point I'm trying to make here is that the MT is not at all safer than the equivelent vehicle equiped with an AT. I wanted to make sure I at least got that out of the way.


Why is it like pulling teeth to convince some individuals that the AT exists for more reasons than because everyone else is an idiot who doesn't know how to make an informed decision on a $15k - $19k purchase.



I will now compile a list:

The only reaon people drive with power steering is because people are stupid and the manufactures make them have it - driving without power steering gives you more road feel and better control of the car. It also allows you to have more control over the man-machine interface.

The only reaon people drive with power brakes is because people are stupid and the manufactures make them have it - driving without power brakes gives you more road feel and better control of the car ESPECIALLY DURRING WINTER DRIVING!!!!!111111. It also allows you to have more control over the man-machine interface.

The only reason people drive with MT synchros is because they are too lazy to double clutch and too stupid not to detonate the clutch... lazy jerks. It also allows you to have more control over the man-machine interface without them.

The only reason people use collision sensors to deploy airbags is because they are too stupid to push the airbag deploy button at just the right moment in a collision. It also allows you to have more control over the man-machine interface without them not to mention it will allow you to avoid the costly fees of having them replaced because sometimes automatic airbags will deploy when you didn't really need them too. That's why manual airbags are more reliable and need fewer repairs.




This is my favorite one thus far, I though of it while I was pooping:

The only reason people drive with Intermitent wipers is because they are too lazy and stupid to push a button every time they want the wipers to wipe the windows. This causes excess wear on the wipers which means you need new wipers and a new wiper motor more often. Manual wipers have both a lower initial cost and lower weight (due to less components) and have lower repair rates than the automatic wipers. Thats why its more practical to have manual wipers than automatic wipers. I don't agree with when the automatic wipers decide to shift, um i mean WIPE. I am a better judge of when the best time to wipe is. AND DONT GET ME STARTED ON THOSE AUTOMATIC WIPERS THAT GIVE YOU THE OPTION TO MANUALLY WIPE - THEY STILL SUCK BECAUSE THEY ARE STILL HEAVIER AND MORE EXPENSIVE THAN MANUAL WIPERS AND UmM THE SLUShBOX EFFECT YES THE SlUSHBOX EFFECT, YOU GET A UMMM DELAY AND STUFF CAUSE OF THE HYDRaulIC COUPLINg THingY iN WIPER transmisSIonS o i mean torgue converter..... Anyway, The way I see it: the only advantage to automatic wipers is IDIOTPROOFNESS! Which I personally do not accept as an advantage. O yeah! and the man machine interface.

Now I know people are going to tell me they understand how I feel and accept that I like manual washers but there aint a chance in hell I'm gonna let those fools think there is ANY advantage to automatic wipers. You see they tell me that automatic wipers are convienient but I personally have it built in to my driving habit to push a button every single time the windows need a wipe. There would be no advantage for me since I already know how to push that button; Therefore ,there is no real advantage to automatic wipers for anyone else either. The dealer must be tricking them into buying them or they must not know how to use manual wipers.

I could do this all day.

I'm sorry if I seem like a jerk.

 

oh man... I think that was the best post I've read in a LONG time.

The ATV... wasn't that called an ATC (all Terrain Cycle) back then - guessing mid/late 80's. "Sal", the kid across the street from me had one. He spent more time rolling it back over b/c the thing tipped over so easily.

I'd like to get your opinion on the following:
- Push button vs. "Key turn" start
- Paper... or plastic.

~SB

 

Boy, I've never seen so many people get so defensive about choosing an automatic transmission.

For the record, I don't believe I've attacked anybody here over their choice or their reasons. That's what this whole argument comes down to, anyway-choice, and the feeling that some of us have that we are losing that choice.

AFAIAC, this thread has now officially "jumped the shark".

 

Auto wipers don't increase drivetrain loss of the wiper motor :P

So yes, people with autos are still too lazy, too uncoordinated, or too ADHD to drive a manual.

 

I'm amused how many people think the justification for manuals is automatics cost too much, then in the same post admit they paid too much for their MT cars because there was no selection while dealers are discounting autos.

That and how the auto is an inflated highly priced profit device. What do you think the sport package is?

If you prefer driving a manual, you don't need to rationalize your choice.

 

I don't think I have EVER seen a MT owner on here admit that the drivetrain-loss idea is BS, considering for whatever loss there is, the torque converter doubles the torque during accelleration (which matters.. durr) so you use less gas. And then, as soon as the puny engine doesn't need any extra torque it locks up and acts just like your MTs with NO drivetrain loss. As can be clearly evidenced by the GE's EPA ratings being higher for AT. The technology has caught up, which is probably why it's looking like manuals are being phased out.

 

I'm sorry but the torque converter does not double torque. It also does not magically create torque. You get a loss in speed whenever you increase torque, just like changing gears.
Dyno any MT vehicle against its AT counterpart and the MT will have a higher wheel horsepower rating. This is all old and simple physics.

The EPA rating is higher for the AT because the AT is geared taller, meaning the engine speed is lower for any given vehicle speed, thus spewing less emissions.