Hi all,

We have almost 12,000 m on our 09 and the A1 indicator is just now telling us to do the first change. Dealer says this is ok and that it is based on our driving.

Is Honda know something new about oil life or just trying to shorten the life of our engines?

 

It's a conspiracy to make everyone come back and buy more Hondas sooner.


Seriously though, there are a few (long) threads floating around on this topic. Not everyone agrees on it, but here is my opinion:

If Honda decided they wanted to do things to shorten the life of its customers' engines they would lose their reputation for building cars that last forever (read: 250,000+ miles). Do you really think they would do that? If the customers suddenly find their Hondas dying sooner than Hondas usually do, do you think they would buy Honda again?
So the argument holds no water.

 

Nothing new here. The old 3000mi change interval is a long outdated standard. Cars today can go much farther before needing a change. Even 12,000 mi or more.

 

A slightly different view on this is from my mechanic (I trust him with my cars, but I'm not sure about his views on this subject) is that it's more to do with the enviromental lobby, pushing manufacturers to extend the time between oil changes: true or not I don't know. One thing he does say, though, that might be pertinent - the oil is just as black when it's changed "early" according to the scheduler.

I may be conducting my own real world experiment with this - my oil has always been changed on a mileage basis (old school), while the one I'v just purchased has been changed on the basis of the scheduler, and I'll probably continue that as it's in a different state. It's going to take several years to work out if it makes a difference.

 

That makes perfect sense. The environmental lobby hangs out in the lobby (of Congress?) where auto manufacturers also hang out. Then the environmental lobby pressures the auto manufacturers to extend their oil change interval. As we all know the manufacturers always do what environmentalists want them to do?

In a former life I was a mechanic and when those guys get sitting around during lunch break they are like the ladies sewing circle. Gossip rumour gossip rumour.
Mechanics are not scientists.

 

Quite.

I would like to know though, if the blackness of the oil when it's drained actually means anything, or if that's just what happens after a short period circulating in an engine and has nothing (or not so much) to do with wear.

Edited to add: I've just found the answer to my question which is that oil color changes quite rapidly after circulating in an engine.

 

Thanks. I am aware of a study a few years back on NYC taxi cabs that found that every 7500 miles did not reduce engine life vs every 3000 miles. I used this interval on my last car (Accura Integra) and got 150,000 before "blow-by" started in one of the cylinders.

Has there actually been any objective studies of intervals > 7500 miles?

 

Other threads in this forum have confirmed that Honda really does put special "break-in" oil (with very high molybdenum levels) in the Fit engines, so it's important to keep it in there for a while. I plan to do my first oil change at 5000 miles, regardless of what the oil life meter says, and at 10,000 mile intervals thereafter. Nice round numbers, easy to remember. I'll probably use Walmart supertech synthetic of the appropriate viscosity.

 

Oil is SUPPOSED to turn black in service. That simply means the oil is doing one of its jobs, which is to hold combustion by products in suspension, rather than allowing them to form sludge. This is a characteristic of modern, high detergent oils.

 

dman had the oil analyzed.... 1st and 2nd oil changes.
in short they concluded the first oil change at 5300 miles was a good idea because "wear metals were high." 2nd oil change 5000 miles later was much cleaner. here are the links...

https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/2nd-...s-results.html

https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/2nd-...-part-2-a.html

 

Spinout -- thanks for the link to the Dman postings. Wish I had seen these about 7000 ago, but I never get to drive the new car-- wife has it all the time-- and I was not paying attention to the mileage, assuming the reminder system would take of it.

Live and learn.

 

Not to appear cynical, but... when BMW automobile dealers started offering "free" oil changes, I believe that the recommended oil change interval doubled. I doubt that the engineering of their engines changed significantly.

Dman's report on oil analyses is why I decided to do the first oil change at 5,000 miles, second change at 10,000 miles, thereafter at 10,000 mile intervals.

I'm also planning to start using 10,000 mile intervals for all lubricants (engine, transmission, and final drive) on my motorcycle, which carries 5 quarts of oil for an 1100cc engine. This is longer than recommended for boxer engines, but shorter than recommended for transmission and FD. BMW engines have a reputation for being bulletproof; not so their transmissions and FDs.

 

my M3 has that schedule. most enthusiasts change it every 7500 mi, even if they have the free mainenance. the castrol TWS 10w60 full synthetic is about 10$/liter, so its not cheap, though its much cheaper than an S54. Their included maintenance is actually quite comprehensive, covering much more than oil changes (brake pads/rotors, clutch, coolant, brake fluid, valve adjustements, etc). But, I agree that the long interval certainly impacted their bottom line.

 

I just changed mine out at 8300 miles. I have no prob going over 10k with a good synth but with dino it makes me a bit twitchy. There's more to quality oil than high levels of moly.

 

What you said is true, but you should never wait until it turns black. When oil can no longer suspend dirt, damage occurs.

Oil turns black from combustion and heat. You have 3 rings per each piston, and each ring has a .007" gap on the end. The rings are staggered so the gaps are not lined up. Even with this, combustion gases will eventually contaminate your oil. Add heat and rotational stresses to the mix as well. Engines with high mileage have looser ring tolerances and cause oil to get dirty much faster. A new Fit with low mileage will not produce dirty oil so fast.

You should be checking your oil and changing it when it looks dark. If you wait until it is black, you waited way too long. Don't rely on a simple meter, just check it. If you want to pay to have it analyzed, that would be great too.

 

Negative ghostrider. Depending on the base stocks and specific chemistries of the additive pack, oil can turn black within a matter of miles. It's NOT specifically related to soot loading.

 

You cannot tell the condition of your oil by the look, smell, or color of it.

More info:

The Dark Oil Myth
Dark oil does not indicate the need for an oil change. The way modern detergent motor oil works is that minute particles of soot are suspended in the oil. These minute particles pose no danger to your engine, but they cause the oil to darken. A non-detergent oil would stay clearer than a detergent oil because all the soot would be left on the internal engine parts and would create sludge. If you never changed your oil, eventually the oil would no longer be able to suspend any more particles in the oil and sludge would form. Fortunately, by following the manufacturer's recommended oil change interval, you are changing your oil long before the oil has become saturated. Remember, a good oil should get dirty as it does it's work cleaning out the engine. The dispersant should stop all the gunk from depositing in the oil pan.
The only real way to determine whether oil is truly in need of changing is to have an oil analysis performed. Since most people don't want to bother with this, it's acceptable to err heavily on the safe side and simply follow the manufacturer's recommended change interval for severe service. There are still a few cars that specify 3K intervals for severe service, but not many. If you look at countries other than the U.S., the oil recommended change interval is much higher than even the normal interval specified by vehicle manufacturers in the U.S.


References: http://www.nordicgroup.us/oil.htm#Th...k%20Oil%20Myth

http://www.oilsandlube.com/oil-color.htm

http://www.texlube.com/oilmyths.htm

 

While this is good info, the results of the first oil change have more to do with the fact that it was just that...a first oil change out of oil that was used during the oil change. I'd have expected nothing but for the second analysis to show less wear metal. Additionally, the first thing out of my good friend and personal mechanic's mouth was that honda does put a special break in oil in their new cars and that the oil should be used for a much longer period of time than usual. Do what you want, but I'll trust someone who knows what they are talking about, not my gut feeling based on what I did in the past.

That being said, the S54 (props to smaglik!) gets new TWS 10w-60 ($10+ a litre) every 3000-5000 miles. I drive that thing like it was meant to be driven and it's cheap insurance. BMW can kick rocks if they think performance engine oil lasts 15k miles between street, autocross, and track.

 

Considering how inaccurate the MPG indicator is, how do we have any assurances that the oil life indicator is any better? I never saw an engine wear out from changing the oil too often. Oil and filters are cheap. Engines are not.

 

i used to change my oil every 5k miles. always used a high quality filter though.

i don't subscribe to the "black" oil is bad oil thing either. i've heard of people changing their oil as soon as it started changing color and i think that's nonsense.