I'm not so sure... it is a software fix which should be relatively simple to tweak (albeit will take a while to test and verify).

10% is alot. I don't think anyone would like it if they had a 10% tax or they were told that their sallary would be 10% more than it actually is (especially not on a daily basis). By looking at people's readings it looks to be a MINIMUM of 4mpg off and that would be 10% off if everyone got 40mpg. Many are getting in the 30's and are 5 or 6mpg off... that to me adds up to be 10-15% off which is a VERY high amount. My computer read 47.1 and the actual economy was 41.89. That's a difference of 5.2mpg, or almost 13%.
Given the laws of averages, if it were to sample at a regular interval, close to half the time it would sample on the high side and the other half the time, it would sample on the low side, giving you an average rating which is pretty close to accurate. In this case, ALL ratings are on the high side which means it is calculating incorrectly. If any of us were getting some calculations that were low, and others that are high, we would have to average them out and voila, it would likely be accurate. but... when every calculation is lower by a significant amount, that is a formula error and not a "sample" problem or anomaly. If it were an anomaly, we would see errors on both the high and low sides of the MPG indicator.

This is definitely a problem with the ECM and the way it calculates economy.

I want my ATM machine to be right on... and not off by 10%...

~SB

 

Update:

I don't have an update.

I got through to one of the service people on the third try, today. Embarrassingly, I did not remember the name of one of the main person helping me (I'm terrible with that stuff, and I am not good with faces either).

I did find out that the person whose name I did not remember did misunderstand what I was saying about what was off. So that is cleared up. He now knows what I meant, and knows that there is a problem. Yay.

No new news. Was hoping for a call back today and haven't gotten one. Which means they don't have any new news since the last time they didn't have any new news.

Talked to the Honda number myself today about the issue. The man didn't have anything for me.

The fellow explained that it would probably go out as a Service Bulletin if Honda can figure out how to fix it. It's not a safety recall government kind of thing.

Listen up, people. I have talked to three different people at Honda America (whatever the 800 number goes to). None of them have found ANYTHING being reported about this issue. Besides me.

People might have called, I suppose, but if they didn't follow through with taking the car in and doing these things I'm doing, HONDA DOES NOT HAVE RECORDS OF IT.

They cannot do a thing until they have records for it. They need data. They need proof.

Proof is when their guys make sure everything is within spec according to the read out and then do the Fuel Consumption Test.

My local dealership doesn't even have a Fit to test on their lot...there are no Fits. LOL! They're sold out.

They obviously cannot commandeer a car in for service, to fill up with gas, charge the customer, and then go for a 50 mile drive, fill up with gas again, and charge the customer again.

So, any volunteers? Any 09 people in/around Serramonte? Not that I'm trying to flood the dealership with this problem, but maybe if they have a couple more cars to check out, it would add weight to what I did.

And maybe the dealer gets bonus points for documenting a problem. I don't know, but it seems like they should get some kind of reward. They should get a reward just for having to put up with me.

 

This is exactly what I'm talking about
Those comparisons are completely out of proportion - there is absolutely no economical impact of the error and there is no law requirement for the reading to be right. I agree that if it is a simple sofware fix, Honda should fix it, but there is no basis for forcing them to do so.

I don't think the laws of average applies to driving - well, of course they do, but unless the intervals are very short, I'm guessing using samples to calculate the average could result in a consistent high MPG reading; the accelerations are few and only short bursts, so they are easily missed by the sampling, but they are using a lot of fuel. So if the computer samples every 10 seconds it would miss some of the accelerations and give a high reading. I don't know the dynamics of this, I'm just saying that things might not be as simple as changing a multiplier

Can't really disagree on that one

 

I've got 1.451 Miles today.
For 6 Fillups this is what I've seen.
Trip Computer showed 37.4 MPG Actual 31.05 MPG
Trip Computer showed 43.9 MPG Actual 38.76 MPG
Trip Computer showed 43.5 MPG Actual 41.52 MPG
Trip Computer showed 42.5 MPG Actual 36.68 MPG
Trip Computer showed 41.5 MPG Actual 37.47 MPG
Trip Computer showed 44.8 MPG Actual 37.96 MPG

It's only been close once so far.

I'm going to talk with my dealer in St. Louis about this,
& will post any useful info.

 

Man, talk about a phone tree that goes on forever! First, the dealer did not have the 800 number for Honda, then the phone tree when I got it through the internet! Honda used to be known for quality and service. The quality is still there, but service... I am beginning to wonder. I was told by American Honda that the guage is a "snapshot" and not intended to be accurate. That makes no sense. They were completely unconcerned, and it is obvious that they do not care. While I have had many Hondas, I know that Toyota makes a great car. Their attitude about this leads me to believe that they are on a downward spiral when it comes to quality and care for their products. This might well be my last Honda. Toyota (Scion) I'll be there before long.

 

Holy crap! They said that?

"Not intended to be accurate"

Did they mention anything else that isn't supposed to work?

They did understand that you meant the accumulated mpg in digital numbers and not that little range thingie above the digital numbers, right? THAT part would be a snapshot, that bunch of little rectangles from 0-80 mpg.

Edmunds photo:


It's the AVG mpg in number form that we want fixed. That top part (mpg, range 0-80) can be the "snapshot".

What I use in driving to get a feel for what I am doing at the moment are the 0-80 current feedback rectangles. That is labeled only "mpg".

But for the actual mpg I'm getting for the entire tank, it would think that the "AVE mpg" would be closer to accurate.

I think that it may be a communication issue sometimes. Like I have said, one of the service advisors thought I was complaining about my real mpg...not the "AVE mpg" readout.

The person you spoke with might have thought you were talking about the "mpg" 0-80 thing.

 

By the way, everyone should check out and sign up for the Honda Owner's Link:

Main US page of the Honda auto division:
Honda Cars - New and Certified Used Cars from American Honda

this is where you click over there on Owner Resources:

Owner Resources
Warranty, parts & service help

Which then takes gives you this option, to join or sign in:
Owner Link Service
Register for free to get these online resources:Learn more about these benefits and more at the Owner Link Web Site.

Already registered? Sign in to Owner Link

------

I put my radio code in there. Also, you can check your Honda Financing in there. You can check for Service offers and schedule maintenance with your dealer.

They have an overview of the car in there. It's like an interactive quickstart manual. Where you roll your cursor over the dash and it tells you what it is, what it does, and you can click for more information. Then you get a man telling you a bit more about what it is.

Sign up, check it out.

 

wow my mpg gauge does not have that at the bottom...just the little squares that go accross the top and the 0-40-80 no avg...weird. maybe they took it out bc it was so inaccurate

 

Keep pressing the little 'rod' sticking out of the odometer.... it will cycle through different 'views'.

 

The bottom gauge should cycle between odometer -> trip meter -> avg MPG -> Oil life when you push the trip meter button.

 

Yea....I'm retarded. I guess I always cycled it too fast...what an idiot. mine shows 31.5. just filled up today so i will test mine and get back with the results.

 

BigWonton...Speaking of the oil life indicator.. I just could not bring myself to wait till it got to 15%. At 5,000 miles, I got out the ramps and changed the oil. Put Valvoline full synthetic in. Sorry , Honda, but 40 years of changing my own oil trumped the guage indicator. (Hey, if the mpg guage is off, the oil life one might be too!)

 

325 miles this weekend going on the PA Turnpike..........MPG gauge read 42.5.

Filled up with 8.6 gallons........... 37.8 actual MPG. 11% difference

Engine has less than 800 miles, me so happy !!!

< -------- IA/TVTEC

 

And I forgot to add, that was with A/C running the whole time!!!!!!

 

I think the point that stands out with me with respect to this issue is that everyone appears to be getting a reading that is about 10% higher than actual. If it was simply a monitoring accuracy issue, I would expect some people to get low readings, some people to get high readings, and a variance across that spectrum. Given a consistent 10% high reading, it sounds more like a flawed conversion factor built into the system computer, whether accidentally or intentionally...

The VTEC DOHC version of the Del Sol had a speedo that was consistently 10% high (showing 60 was really around 55). That version of the car had slightly different gearing ratios than the other two models. Honda just didn't feel it was important enough to get a custom speedo gear to compendate. They even stated that 10% was within spec.

Sometime later, Honda settled a class action with lease holders of some other Honda models because the odometers consistently overestimated distance traveled, similar to the above. People who lease cars pay a penalty for exceeding a given mileage per year, so this would actually take money out of their pockets.

 

I haven't looked into what other Honda models have the same kind of readout and if they are inaccurate too. Anyone know?

And anyone know if Fit owners in other countries are having inaccurate AVE mpg readings (if they do indeed have the same gauges)?

It seems like such an insulting error. It's not hidden away, it's right in our faces on the dash, so easy to check for accuracy.

Did Honda think no one would notice? And how could they not notice?

Which is least accurate:
a) Dollar store calculator
b) Automotive technology in a $15,000-$20,000 car
c) Fourth grader with basic math skills

 

SteveInNC, it's funny you mention the story about the Del Sol speedo being 10% higher. On my commute to work, they have a couple of those road side speed indicators (just flashed back to The Office) and I have consistently noticed that my speedo is optimistic compared to the radar.

 

I think it's Marketing...

A large percentage of car owners don't do the math to compute their mileage (the same people who rarely do any other service on their vehicles either, thus the "wrench"). These people will likely believe what the "computer" tells them. They then tell all of their friends "hey, my Fit is getting NN(+10%) MPG!". That ends up in the friends' minds when they start thinking about a new car. Even with the revised methods, most people think that the EPA sticker numbers are wrong. If your friend told you their actual experience with the car, that would generally carry more weight. Besides, they probably drive in a similar environment and conditions to those that you do, as opposed to the simulated EPA cycle.

 

The cynic in me says you are probably right. Also it seems to be the case around the world. The Australian version has been criticized for this in several road test reports.

The speedometer is out too. by about 5-6 km/h at 80 km/h according to my GPS. That's pretty normal though. Some States here (esp. Victoria) will send you a fine if you drive by the camera doing even 1 km/h over the limit. Therefore speedos come calibrated a bit short so that you won't start going over as your tires wear. I think the acceptable legal tolerance for speedo accuracy according to the ADRs is -0/+10%

 

So, without calculating hard numbers I'm thinking that my mpg gauge that reads almost always 30.7 [give or take a notch] in city driving is actually about 27 mpg- which pretty much jives with the sticker number of 27 city. Sometimes I can get it up to 31 on the gauge, but it's rare and fleeting, when city driving. I haven't had my AT Sport on the highway yet. We'll see. And I'm still working off my original tank of gas when I bought the car- 9 days ago. Just hitting half a tank now. Beats the HELL out of my clunker I traded in!

Dan