09 roll over
#61
01-17-2009, 08:01 AM
I thought I would share pictures of my 09 Fit Sport after I rolled it on Thursday. I was heading out on a business trip at 4:30 am with one of my employees and hit an unexpected drift of snow which threw me out of control. I hit the bank (and big pile of snow) and then the Fit rolled at least twice down the shoulder. This was about 3 miles from home. We landed upright and the car ran fine so I drove it home with the door open (it had popped open after first roll and would not close). None of the airbags deployed.
Is was obviously pretty scary but it could have been a lot worse. Either of us was hurt (though a bit sore). The car definitely did its job protecting us. We both had our seatbelts on. It is a real bummer about the car, we just bought it in September…
The front bumper was trashed plus most the left side of the car. The left roof was crushed in a bit. The rear of the car and right side are not damaged. There was very little damage to the mechanical part of car. The radiator was dented a little bit but functional.
I got a call from body shop and it looks like it will be over $14,000 to repair so insurance company will probably total it. What a bummer...
Is was obviously pretty scary but it could have been a lot worse. Either of us was hurt (though a bit sore). The car definitely did its job protecting us. We both had our seatbelts on. It is a real bummer about the car, we just bought it in September…
The front bumper was trashed plus most the left side of the car. The left roof was crushed in a bit. The rear of the car and right side are not damaged. There was very little damage to the mechanical part of car. The radiator was dented a little bit but functional.
I got a call from body shop and it looks like it will be over $14,000 to repair so insurance company will probably total it. What a bummer...
Insurance proceeds are defined as replacement of equal value.
The repair cost is so high that your Fit is totalled. You have the right to demand a replacement of equal value and let the insurance company find you a replacement. With only 6700 miles and an 09 they will pretty much have to get you a new one just like your other. If you agree to pay the 52 cents per mile difference between the new car and your destroyed one they should be agreeable.
They may play hard ball and refuse; make sure they know you are keeping a close and accurate tab on your expenses being incurred by the loss of your car. And yes you may have to get a lawyer but his expenses are recoverable from the insurance company. At least talk to a good lawyer about what your rights are whetre you live. Most attorneys will not charge you for your initial contact if they think it will be a case that brings in income. Yours should be.
#62
01-17-2009, 11:33 AM
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: West Coast, USA
Posts: 1,448
From what Tafettawhite mentioned about the ins co not bringing up gap insurance to you: unfortunately, ignorance is not an arguing point. You cant blame anybody about not knowing about something like gap insurance. Additionally, gap comes when the car is bought, not when its insured. Similar to to knowing about your checking account's overdraft protection so you don't bounce checks & affect your credit. I didn't read from the beginning but gap ins almost always comes into play in leases only. Its in leases due to lease rates being subsidized by carmarkers to lower the rates, rates that wouldn't cover the full value of a depreciating car. If you bought the car, I'm not surprised that no one had mentioned it before.
As far as insuring for what you owe and not the value of the car: Ins co usually do not insure one's credit or financial/buying decisions. They cannot insure any buyers decision to buy @ what price or insure the owner from what financing they chose to do. Car insurance policies can only insure the value of the car, not the circumstances of the car purchase, there are too many variables in that.
Onward re: CCC. Their valuating is flawed. Check to see if the model is the same. Call that local place & ask if it actually sold for that amount. If it sold for that amount, ask if it had, to their knowledge, any damage or repairs to it. I find it hard to believe, with today's demand for the Fit, that anybody would sell a pristine (which an 09 should be) Fit for that amount.
Your total loss valuation should contain a conditions report showing what condition they valued your car at. CCC has been sued in the past for incorrectly valuating a car's conditioning, lowering the value. If your car was in like-new condition, make sure they value your car with that condition rating. You might want to ask your ins co's if the other cars CCC used to compare were in similar condition. I would think most 09s would be in like new condition.
CCC reports are run using samples based on geographic areas. If only one is found in your area, that is not a good sample based study. 08s are a different body and wouldn't help much. Ask how a sample based study be used when there is only one to chose from? In these cases, I'd ask that they compare it to new Fits (since its the current model yr), then deduct for miles driven if they cannot find a representative number of used 09 fits to survey. Here you can use NADA, KBB, or Edmunds to show new ones are being sold @ MSRP. This is where you can use the comparables others have given you to demand a higher sample set for them to average.
Chances are, your insurance rep will be dumbfounded if they chose to actually listen these specific questions. They may not even know CCC (re: valuating) was even sued & their insurance co still chooses to use them. I've been on both sides of this total loss battle, have had first hand meeting w/CCC in the past & seen many of these total loss valuations. If it seems your valuation is low, and it sounds a bit fishy to me, there's something in the valuation making it so. You can PM me for any specifics.
As far as insuring for what you owe and not the value of the car: Ins co usually do not insure one's credit or financial/buying decisions. They cannot insure any buyers decision to buy @ what price or insure the owner from what financing they chose to do. Car insurance policies can only insure the value of the car, not the circumstances of the car purchase, there are too many variables in that.
Onward re: CCC. Their valuating is flawed. Check to see if the model is the same. Call that local place & ask if it actually sold for that amount. If it sold for that amount, ask if it had, to their knowledge, any damage or repairs to it. I find it hard to believe, with today's demand for the Fit, that anybody would sell a pristine (which an 09 should be) Fit for that amount.
Your total loss valuation should contain a conditions report showing what condition they valued your car at. CCC has been sued in the past for incorrectly valuating a car's conditioning, lowering the value. If your car was in like-new condition, make sure they value your car with that condition rating. You might want to ask your ins co's if the other cars CCC used to compare were in similar condition. I would think most 09s would be in like new condition.
CCC reports are run using samples based on geographic areas. If only one is found in your area, that is not a good sample based study. 08s are a different body and wouldn't help much. Ask how a sample based study be used when there is only one to chose from? In these cases, I'd ask that they compare it to new Fits (since its the current model yr), then deduct for miles driven if they cannot find a representative number of used 09 fits to survey. Here you can use NADA, KBB, or Edmunds to show new ones are being sold @ MSRP. This is where you can use the comparables others have given you to demand a higher sample set for them to average.
Chances are, your insurance rep will be dumbfounded if they chose to actually listen these specific questions. They may not even know CCC (re: valuating) was even sued & their insurance co still chooses to use them. I've been on both sides of this total loss battle, have had first hand meeting w/CCC in the past & seen many of these total loss valuations. If it seems your valuation is low, and it sounds a bit fishy to me, there's something in the valuation making it so. You can PM me for any specifics.
CCC Information Services, Inc.
---------------------------------------------
Copy and paste of the controversy:
While CCC was building a solid reputation in the 1990s, especially with insurers, the company was not without its share of critics. Its Total Loss Valuation product was cited in a number of lawsuits filed against insurance companies by unhappy policyholders, who contended that insurers undervalued "totaled" vehicles. Plaintiff attorneys argued that the reason CCC was so popular with insurers was its proclivity for giving the lowest price possible for a total loss evaluation. CCC primarily based its valuation on the "take price" for a vehicle comparable to the one that was lost. Take Prices, according to the attorneys, excluded sales commissions and represented the lowest amount a dealer would sell a vehicle to a cash customer that day. Because CCC did not determine the settlement amount, it was not a party in the litigation. Furthermore, since insurance companies were its major customers, CCC suffered no adverse impact from the controversy.
Source: CCC Information Services Group Inc.: Information from Answers.com
--------------------------------------------------
More info here, and maybe check around to see if you can find insurers that are NOT listed there, and do NOT use this CCC:
AutoMuse® 2005 September
$10 Million class action settlement involving some insurers’ use of total loss valuations provided by CCC Information Services, Inc. (CCC). The allegations in the combined lawsuits were that insurers deliberately undervalued the total loss amounts of vehicles by using CCC’s data.
----------------------------------------------------------
This is a link to a PDF file on one person's claim against State Farm and CCC, talking about conspiracy, etc:
http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/...a/s05g2086.pdf
I just glanced over the first few pages.
Sounds to me they could be up to their old tricks.
#63
01-18-2009, 07:11 PM
WOW! Very scary! 
I'm so glad to hear that YOU and your passenger are OK!!!
And I too am amazed at how little damage there is to the passenger compartment, and that you were able to drive home in the car after it rolled.
Truthfully, the only way to avoid all auto accidents is never to drive.
You can check out this Honda blurb about safety, and it says about the side airbags, that they are for severe side impacts:
Honda Media Newsroom Release: 2009 Honda Fit - Safety
All I can say is I sure am glad you were wearing your seat belts! The way that door looks? That could have been you.
So, if it's totaled, which FIT are you getting next? Because after seeing how well you were protected, I'm extra glad that *I* have a FIT too. Not that any one wants to get in an accident, but if it does happen, it's good to know that the roof doesn't cave in. The windshield glass didn't even shatter all over. That's amazing.
Is the only glass that completely broke on the driver's door? It looks like the windshield glass "bent", but didn't shower you with broken glass. That really is incredible.
You're going to be stiff in a day or two. Very stiff. You'll probably want to see doctor. they have pain killers and muscle relaxants that work pretty good. It will help you to relax and to get to sleep at night. Hot baths too. Epsom salts can be helpful, I have found.
Edit: Oops, I wasn't paying enough attention, that'll teach me to type while drowsy. This happened last week. How are you feeling now, physically? OK?
I'm so glad to hear that YOU and your passenger are OK!!!
And I too am amazed at how little damage there is to the passenger compartment, and that you were able to drive home in the car after it rolled.
Truthfully, the only way to avoid all auto accidents is never to drive.
You can check out this Honda blurb about safety, and it says about the side airbags, that they are for severe side impacts:
Honda Media Newsroom Release: 2009 Honda Fit - Safety
All I can say is I sure am glad you were wearing your seat belts! The way that door looks? That could have been you.
So, if it's totaled, which FIT are you getting next? Because after seeing how well you were protected, I'm extra glad that *I* have a FIT too. Not that any one wants to get in an accident, but if it does happen, it's good to know that the roof doesn't cave in. The windshield glass didn't even shatter all over. That's amazing.
Is the only glass that completely broke on the driver's door? It looks like the windshield glass "bent", but didn't shower you with broken glass. That really is incredible.
You're going to be stiff in a day or two. Very stiff. You'll probably want to see doctor. they have pain killers and muscle relaxants that work pretty good. It will help you to relax and to get to sleep at night. Hot baths too. Epsom salts can be helpful, I have found.
Edit: Oops, I wasn't paying enough attention, that'll teach me to type while drowsy. This happened last week. How are you feeling now, physically? OK?
Thanks.
#64
01-18-2009, 08:02 PM
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: West Coast, USA
Posts: 1,448
Hey it sounds as if you might have some experience in accidents...I didn't get in a car accident, but when I donated platelets last Monday, the tech did something wrong and my whole arm is a mass of bruising. The worst I have ever seen. I think my vein must have bled out inside for quite a while. It's been so sore and messed up I have trouble sleeping. Do you know what is good to help get the soreness out? I've only taken Advil and Tylenol and even though I am right-handed, I use my left arm a lot. I can't sit around and do nothing. I should have put it in a splint, or something. Anyway, any tips for really bad contusions?
Thanks.
Thanks.
By "whole arm" do you mean your whole arm?
For instance, from the crease on the inside of your arm at the elbow, how far up and how far down does the bruise extend? Remember that platelets are to help prevent bruising and bleeding! So that while you are saving someone else's life by giving them what they don't have, you give up a bit of your own protection, temporarily.
Apparently I make a truckload of platelets, so I was often asked to do a double donation. You might have had the normal amount, with just enough to spare to help someone else.
And for me, I gladly took the wee bit of pain or bruising knowing that what I was experiencing was a whole lot less than someone who has cancer and was undergoing treatment.
This is general platelet donation (apheresis) information that is duplicated pretty much on every donation site:
The National Blood Service - Platelet Donation
And the Wiki link:
Plateletpheresis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
You may have just saved some lives without having to go into burning buildings or carry anyone down a fire truck ladder. Or swim pulling a survivor to shore when they were drowning.
The center at which you donated can answer any questions you have. That's what they are there for. The only stupid question is the question that isn't asked.
You want to KNOW and feel SECURE in your donation. You want to know if it is completely normal. So that the tech on the phone or in person says "Yes, that is normal" and someone else might pipe up "Aw, that's nothing, look at MY bruises!"
But if it is extensive and NOT normal, the tech and the center NEED to know. Was it the tech that caused it? Should the center space out your donations more? Should you up your iron and cram calcium before even going in to do your next donation?
I've been turned down many times for low iron. I swear they want me to eat a cast iron skillet. So for me, I have to eat tons of iron-rich foods and take supplements long before considering donating and keep up with it.
Elevate it. Hey, give yourself a break and rest.
You can browse many links on bruises and bruising here:
MedlinePlus: Bruises
#65
01-18-2009, 08:19 PM
i'm glad that your ok. and fixing this would be easy. but i guess 2009 honda fit doors are expensive and especially the mirror needs to replace. and front bumper. hopefully the frame did not bend that can cause salvage title and replacing the bumper will be simple. the cost is ... =/
#66
01-26-2009, 12:18 PM
I thought I would give an update. The insurance company has moved a little on the settlement but not enough. They are at:
ACV $14,700+ 700=$15,400+ tax 770=$16,170 - 250 deductible= $15,920
I continue to fight on...I have sent nearly a dozen e-mails and my agent is involved. They have not given me specifics on where this value is coming from.
Thanks for everyone's help.
ACV $14,700+ 700=$15,400+ tax 770=$16,170 - 250 deductible= $15,920
I continue to fight on...I have sent nearly a dozen e-mails and my agent is involved. They have not given me specifics on where this value is coming from.
Thanks for everyone's help.
#67
01-26-2009, 01:37 PM
I thought I would give an update. The insurance company has moved a little on the settlement but not enough. They are at:
ACV $14,700+ 700=$15,400+ tax 770=$16,170 - 250 deductible= $15,920
I continue to fight on...I have sent nearly a dozen e-mails and my agent is involved. They have not given me specifics on where this value is coming from.
Thanks for everyone's help.
ACV $14,700+ 700=$15,400+ tax 770=$16,170 - 250 deductible= $15,920
I continue to fight on...I have sent nearly a dozen e-mails and my agent is involved. They have not given me specifics on where this value is coming from.
Thanks for everyone's help.
They are offering you $16,170 less the $250 deductible for your 09 Fit Sport.
If you take the dealer list price (window sticker) for a new Fit equipped just like yours with fees etc and subtract 63 cents for every mile you drove you end up with the correct reimbursement. If that is $16,190 or more you have a correct deal or a gift. You owe the deductible.
#68
01-26-2009, 04:22 PM
I take it the 'diminished value' is $700. Still have no idea what that is for.
They are offering you $16,170 less the $250 deductible for your 09 Fit Sport.
If you take the dealer list price (window sticker) for a new Fit equipped just like yours with fees etc and subtract 63 cents for every mile you drove you end up with the correct reimbursement. If that is $16,190 or more you have a correct deal or a gift. You owe the deductible.
They are offering you $16,170 less the $250 deductible for your 09 Fit Sport.
If you take the dealer list price (window sticker) for a new Fit equipped just like yours with fees etc and subtract 63 cents for every mile you drove you end up with the correct reimbursement. If that is $16,190 or more you have a correct deal or a gift. You owe the deductible.
Actual Cash Value vs. Replacement Cost Explained
ACV is fair market value and/or the cost to replace with new property of like kind and qulaity, less depreciation.
#69
01-27-2009, 08:20 AM
Where did the $.63 come from? Are you referring to the standard mileage rate for car expenses? For July 08 - Dec 08 the standard mileage rate was $.585 per mile (and is $.55 for 2009). That is not how insurance companies calculate ACV (Actual Cash Value). If that was the case they would have offered me a lot less than what they have. That would not be a fair way to do it. ACV does include depreciation but that is not the same as the standard mileage rate (not even close on a Honda Fit). Here is a link describing ACV:
Actual Cash Value vs. Replacement Cost Explained
ACV is fair market value and/or the cost to replace with new property of like kind and qulaity, less depreciation.
Actual Cash Value vs. Replacement Cost Explained
ACV is fair market value and/or the cost to replace with new property of like kind and qulaity, less depreciation.
Yes, inadvertently I used my company mileage allowance rather than the feds.
Depreciation includes wear and tear. ACV, or actual market value, is the actual value of a Fit like yours at present. If anyone can buy a car like yours in tthe same condition, including miles driven, that is the value of your Fit.
The best you can hope for is the replacement value equal to your car which is the retial or selling price of the replacement less the user costs, which in this case is replacement vehicle cost, including fees etc less the use cost at 58c per mile on your car. To expect to get a new car with no mileage penalty is cheating insurance.
Still don't know what diminished value is. Replacement value vs actual value has been long disputed but the ACV has won out in virtuaslly all court cases excepting rare or special cars which doesn't include the Fit. Useage costs has won out over simple depreciation to arrive at equivalent replacement costs.
Oh, and if you want to ask for an exact replacement Fit, be prepared to wait while they put an equivalent number of miles on the new Fit they buy. Might be a while.
Last edited by mahout; 01-27-2009 at 11:36 AM.
#70
01-27-2009, 08:45 AM
just ask the ins co for the exact same car. tell them that what they are offering won't get you a car close to the one you had.
#71
01-27-2009, 09:13 AM
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: West Coast, USA
Posts: 1,448
Yes, inadvertently I used my company mileage allowance rather than the feds.
Depreciation includes wear and tear. ACV, or actual market value, is the actual value of a Fit like yours at present. If anyone can buy a car like yours in tthe same condition, including miles driven, that is the value of your Fit.
The best you can hope for is the replacement value equal to your car which is the retial or selling price of the replacement less the user costs, which in this case is replacement vehicle cost, including fees etc less the use cost at 58c per mile on your car. To expect to get a new car with no mileage penalty is cheating insurance.
Still don't know what diminished value is. Replacement value vs actual value has been long disputed but the ACV has won out in virtuaslly all court cases excepting rare or special cars which doesn't include the Fit. Useage costs has won out over simple depreciation to arrive at equivalent replacement costs.
Depreciation includes wear and tear. ACV, or actual market value, is the actual value of a Fit like yours at present. If anyone can buy a car like yours in tthe same condition, including miles driven, that is the value of your Fit.
The best you can hope for is the replacement value equal to your car which is the retial or selling price of the replacement less the user costs, which in this case is replacement vehicle cost, including fees etc less the use cost at 58c per mile on your car. To expect to get a new car with no mileage penalty is cheating insurance.
Still don't know what diminished value is. Replacement value vs actual value has been long disputed but the ACV has won out in virtuaslly all court cases excepting rare or special cars which doesn't include the Fit. Useage costs has won out over simple depreciation to arrive at equivalent replacement costs.
FlipTwister:
Keep checking the Edmunds used car listings, and print out every single used 2009 Fit as you see it. No matter what distance it is from you. Whatever is on each individual page, so it shows the dealer or private party and the link, etc.
The prices are pretty consistent across the U.S.
#72
01-27-2009, 12:53 PM
There are used 2009 Fit Sports with about the same mileage. The insurance company is not even close to what they are being sold for. They are not even offering me what 08 Fit Sports are going for...
I will update if anything else happens. Thanks!
I will update if anything else happens. Thanks!
#76
01-27-2009, 08:38 PM
I hope that leaves you in a good situation and able to buy a new car. Are you buying another Fit?
#77
01-27-2009, 10:50 PM
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: West Coast, USA
Posts: 1,448
Range of prices within this search:
Highest Price: $20,823
Lowest Price: $15,490
Average Price: $17,315
That's right in the ballpark of where you want to be and is what I would consider to be a fair amount. Some of the cars online are more costly, some less.
Best deal I can find is this one, it's kind of close in location to you. Not exactly next door, but will get you right back in the driver's seat, for a little less than what you are getting, which might allow you to pay off any extra on the former loan.
$15,870 Mileage: 909
Used 2009 Honda Fit Sport
- 9 Photos
- Silver
- 4 Cylinder Gasoline
Options - , FOG LIGHTS, POWER DOOR LOCKS, AM/FM STEREO W/CD PLAYER, CRUISE CONTROL, TACHOMETER, POWER PASSENGER SEAT, KEYLESS ENTRY, BUCKET SEATS,... View more details about this vehicle
1827 miles from ZIP code 94132
McGrath Honda of Elgin
1-866-375-8685See our current offers
View the FreeCARFAX Report
#78
01-28-2009, 04:18 PM
Glad you've got a better settlement...
This just in:
settlement offer now $16,542 + tax 827.10=$17,369
I will probably take it...
settlement offer now $16,542 + tax 827.10=$17,369
I will probably take it...
FWIW, I think you can pretty easily buy a Fit for invoice pricing now -- our local Honda dealer just had a 1cent over invoice sale on all Hondas this past week -- so that bodes well. Keep in mind the Insight is coming out soon, so it will add some competition for the Fit too.
Be sure to consider some snow tires this time around for your Wisconsin weather...
Best wishes -
-Denis
#79
01-28-2009, 04:24 PM
My Canadian insurance company had an $80 option that said if the car gets written off they replace it with a brand new Fit Sport. I gladly paid the $80. Good luck to you, glad no one was seriously hurt.
#80
01-28-2009, 04:48 PM
He already said:
Yes they were the stock tires (Dunlop Sport 7000). They worked surprisingly well in the snow in my mind. In this case the tires probably would not have made a difference. It was more a case of how deep the drift was. It was very windy and early am and the plows had not been out in a while (it was not snowing). I was driving kind of cautiously because we had seen another drift. I was probably going 40 - 45. Obviously I was not cautious enough...