Anybody know anything about the 2009 and up Honda Fit AWD that
is available in Japan? I'd sure would like it to be available in Canada!
I'm curious as how much loss there is for MPG, and wonder how the
rear drivetrain looks like.

Ah, to be able to get a 2009 Fit with a Civic engine, 6-speed manual
transmission and AWD...

Space-Coyote

 

the awesomeness would make even Chuck Norris's head implode

 

I believe that the gd3 awd was a 1.3L and still lost mpg. I assume that the ge8 is similar. which sucks cause I want awd but with the "larger" engine. isn't the european jazz a 1.6L? I do not remember...

 

There's this in the forums:
https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/fron...fit-japan.html

And here:
2008 Honda Fit bows in Japan - Autoblog

 

I found all the different gd's
GD1 - 1.3 L L13A I4 engine 2WD
GD2 - 1.3 L L13A I4 engine 4WD (Japan only)
GD3 - 1.5 L L15A I4 engine 2WD
GD4 - 1.5 L L15A I4 engine 4WD (Japan only)
GD5 - 1.2 L L12A I4 engine 2WD (Europe only)

if it is even relevant now...

 

There shouldn't be too much lost in MPG. There is only 1 MPG difference between 2WD and 4WD version of the CR-V. I was able to get high 20s MPG with my old 91 Civic AWD wagon. It was only a 4 speed auto.

 

Euro Jazz is 1.2 or 1.4. JDM, I think only gets the 1.5 in the RS.

Aus gets 1.3 or 1.5

USDM gets 1.5 only

 

I don't think a FIT AWD would be easy to engineer for an American market. First of all, there is a significant weight increase, close to 200 lbs, including a big driveshaft under the length of the car. You would also need a 'smart' center differential to split the power front/rear.

Independent of the weight increase, there is nearly a 10% power loss associated with the need to add a center differential and a rear differential. These extra components consume energy as power is delivered to the wheels. The added weight plus the extra drivetrain losses would really penalize acceleration. Let's face it; the Fit has many virtues, but it is no ball of fire in a drag race. In total: notably more costly, poorer acceleration, poorer gas mileage. By the way, I speak from some personal experience, having owned a few years back a VW Passat 4Motion, a variant on the regular Passat sedan.

 

Why would it be difficult to engineer? There is already a version in the Japanese market.

It's not a full time 4WD. You are making it more complicated than it is. I had a Civic AWD for 15 years. The rear wheels would only engage if the front wheels loose traction. It basically a 2WD until it looses traction.

The weight difference between the 2WD and 4WD CR-V is less than 120lb and milage is 1 mpg less. Since the Fit is smaller, the added weight would probably be less than the CR-V.

People don't usually buy AWD for acceleration, but for necessity.

 

AWD would be cool but would the US market really need one... not really, the point of the FIT in the US is for great MPG, AWD and what not Honda brought a great gas saving car to the US market, maybe down the road when the demand for small AWD cars goes up than well see an AWD FIT but untill than lets not forget this is not a race car its a FIT, does that mean we cant make an AWD FIT out of pockit no, would it be hard hell yes, but for now let the FIT be a FIT and love the car for what we(I) got it for great MPG

 

......

I will admit to not knowing much about Civic AWD from 15 years ago. The current generation approach for AWD uses a center differential with highly automated control to split power instantaneously. I am familiar with Volvo S60 AWD (2004 model year). 90% of power goes to front wheels normally; under demand situations, it switches to about 50/50.

Unfortunately, that center differential must sit there rotating, and burning energy, whether or not much power is transferred to the rear. And,when you put your foot to the floor to accelerate, the effective horsepower of the engine will not be 117hp, but more like it was 100 - 105. Acceleration might be marginal (and let's not forget the extra weight).

I don't think I am needlessly complicating the potential situation. You are taking an extremely efficient FWD design, and then asking to make it AWD. Consider the need to run a driveshaft essentially the full length of the car. On the Volvo S60 AWD I was familiar with (S60R, which I owned for more than two years), they avoided a big center hump by putting an extra joint in the driveshaft. Still that model was notorious for problems with the shield under the driveshaft rubbing against it without warning - potentially damaging. I needed to make an urgent trip to the dealer because of a sudden such occurrence in a rainstorm. That Volvo also needed to have a special saddle-shaped gas tank which straddled the driveshaft. A second fuel pump would transfer fuel from one half of the tank to the other. There were a number of failures of that pump, resulting in numerous owners becoming stranded with a half full fuel tank.

I don't mean to be preachy, but seemingly simple engineering changes can produce rather far reaching and unanticipated results. The Fit design is outstanding, and outstandingly efficient, with its current FWD concept.

 

Yeah I would tend to agree with this. Since there is a 4wd or awd version already available in Japan.


But I can also see the engineering difficulties as well. Regardless, great discussion in this thread.



If there was an AWD or 4WD version (in NA)especially if there was a on/off switch, and/or the mpg were similiar to the 2WD version I would get it. Even though I might only use that feature on the several times we get bad snow to me it would be worth it. I'm sure a lot of other people would buy one as well, especially in the snowier areas like Canada, and Northern US.

 

Not all AWD system are the same. Honda uses a much more simpler system. It still uses the same setup. But, much improved. My AWD civic never had a problem in the 15 years ownership.

2009 Honda CR-V - Features - Real Time? 4WD

 

That's an interesting 4WD system. I would agree that it reduces losses under many driving conditions. There still is extra weight and cost, and the shaft running the length of the car might have some effect on the Fit's packaging efficiency. The Fit has to cover a distinct price niche in the U.S. market, and a 4WD or AWD model might just not fall within that price range.

 

No disputing the wonderfulness of AWD in heavy rain or snow. Some manufacturers seem to add it without much penalty (the Murano, for instance), while the AWD version of the Suzuki does notably worse than its 2wd sibling.
We, too, have an AWD Passat, and it is truly the deal in crappy weather.
Moon

 

As I've said before, a much better option is a limited-slip differential. You get twice the grip that you have now, with minimal weight penalty. Add snow tires and it should work well in the winter.

So, anyone know if the LSDs available for the GD3 will work with the GE8s? They have different part numbers, but I wonder how much of an actual difference there is.

 

They will not work.. GE8 diff is a bit larger in size than the GD3... Cusco has different part #`s for both Chassis`

 

Pity. Here is hoping that Quaife makes an LSD for our cars.

 

That's pretty funny. I have 5 foot snow berms on either side of my driveway. The streets have been ice covered and snowy 10 out of the last 15 days. I think an AWD would make me sell my brand new 2WD. There are a lot of states snowier than yours you know.

 

Now you have me DROOLING: I want a 2009 (or 2010) Honda Fit with
AWD and 6-speed manual transmission, with a Civic engine AND
LSD (Limited Slip Differentials) in front AND in rear!

Honda, are you listening??
PLEASE!

Now back to this good old earth, driving a 1996 Ford Aspire...

Space-Coyote
:-)