I think the RPM changes your seeing are due to torque lock or locking torque converter and I agree it can be frustrating and I would like to be able to control it.

2cents on the "no shift at redline" topic: I like the fact that when I put it in "S" and hit the paddle that I am in complete control. My 4th gen ZC equipped 5sp Civic SI doesn't shift for me at redline and to me my Fit is kinda like the best of both worlds. When I have to haul @$$, I hit the paddles and drive it just like my Civic; downshifting for corners etc and it has been rock solid (8k+ miles). And I don't believe it downshifts automatically except to 1st at 6mph.

I would like to confirm that someone has got to fourth gear in "S" WITHOUT hitting the paddles? I've taken it up to 75 or so with it still holding 3rd, let off and kept a steady pace and it still held 3rd. Also frustrating.

"S" mode with paddles works EXCELLENT in the snow and ice. Have 8 or so inches right now and still snowing and being able to start out in 2nd is great as well, if not more important, as being able to downshift and stay off the brakes.

 

I suspect the 500 rev difference Mahout noted (while the tranny indicator stayed the same) is indeed the torque convertor unlocking, rather than an actual,mechanical downshift.

As regards snow, I've got to start experimenting with 'S', because those nifty automatic engine-braking downshifts could cause trouble on a slippery hill. You don't want ANY changes that could upset a tenuous balance.
Moon

 

Its an actual downshift resulting from a program called gradient control which monitors the fuel injection cycle vs rpm; when the fuel load gets high enough as a result of loading up engine power there is a downshift to relieve the fuel input, thus not only improving economy but also performance.

 

Mahout, ya' sure it isn't just a clutch unlocking? The four speed auto Jeeps will lock the torque converter in 3d and 4th gear; 3d gear locked actually produces fewer revs than 4th gear unlocked.
In neither vehicle do I feel the slight jerk that accompanies an actual downshift, but unlocking the torque converter permits more revs/more torque.
I played with the 'S' setting this evening, and I'm starting to get the hang of it. Not as good as a manual, but it seems pretty cooperative.
Moon

 

Yeah, pretty sure. The rpm change matches the 5th to 4th gear rastio change. I'm nowhere near an automatic trandmission designer or mechanic but Honda did tell me about a 'gradient' computer program to monitor fuel flow vs rpm to measure 'effort' of the engine. And keep it from getting too high. Makes sense. Don't know why unlocking the converter would raise rpm much if at all.

 

Mahout-
In the Jeeps, the difference between 4th unlocked and 3d locked is about 500 revs...if the driven/driving turbines of the torque converter aren't connected, that much deliberate slippage could be expected. The unlocked condition permits the engine to rev more/make more power/torque, but is less efficient.
I'll confess that autos are a mystery wrapped in an enigma for me, and we always looked at the tranny guy at the Dodge Garage where I worked (long ago) as a cross between Einstein and the witch doctor.
Moon

 

[quote=halfmoonclip;523337]Mahout-
In the Jeeps, the difference between 4th unlocked and 3d locked is about 500 revs...if the driven/driving turbines of the torque converter aren't connected, that much deliberate slippage could be expected. The unlocked condition permits the engine to rev more/make more power/torque, but is less efficient.


Note that there was a change in gear ratios 4th to 3rd in the Jeep.
If the rpm changed 500 rpm between locked 4th and 4th unlocked I could see your point. Not being an automatic enthusiast we never worked on them but my recollection is 4th unlocked to 4th locked only dropped rpm by maybe 40 rpm. significant to mpg but not 600 rpm we see.

PS I got the paddle-shifted Fit because my kids and grandkids all said since I was so close to knocking off would I please get a car they would like to inherit. And I can stillshift 'manually'. Not one of em wants the racer CRX SiR. Guess I learned why all those youngsters voted for Obama.

 

the Canadian FITS do come with Paddle shift, it's an option! its in the fully loaded fit sports...i have one
you can get the sport with just auto and without paddle shift too.

I like the paddle shift...its a cool....and can you shift with the Paddles in S mode and D more? i don't think it makes a difference...does it?

 

I read (I believe in the manual, actually) that it's not actually the torque converter unlocking but a clutch in the AT that causes this behavior. It's not grade logic because that would change the display if the car downshifted. Anyone know? A lot of the answers I've seen here so far are just conjecture based on how other ATs work. The devil is in the details, boys...

 

There is no clutch in an AT Fit. I like the theory of the gradient computer but simple locking/unlocking of the torque converter seems like the more logical (and cheaper to implement) option.

A

 

I think you should check again. There are many clutches in the AT Fit.

 

The devil may be in the semantics, here. The clutch they are speaking of is likely the one that locks the torque convertor; other than transmitting energy, it has little to do with a manual transmission 'clutch'.
Moon

 

Mahout-
Yessir, there was a change in ratios; by shifting from 4th unlocked climbing a hill at, say, 3500 rpm, pulling the shifter down to 3d, locked, actually dropped the revs to 3000 while the speed stayed constant.

BTW, the gradient thing in the Fit's engine controls seems to actually sense grades, both going up or down. This serves to gain engine braking going downhill, and holds the engine in a lower gear going uphill, thus avoiding the 'searching' thing some autos do.
Moon

 

I drive the paddleshift b/c I LOVE watching F1, and decided for my DD, I had to have to have paddle shift. Makes me feel like Kimi Raikkonen!

Too bad it's not a real manuamatic.

 

I think someone already addressed it but you should probably check again. It is true that in automatic transmission there are clutch packs and bands but it is definitely not the same thing as the clutch in a manual transmission. In the context of this discussion no one is talking about the clutch packs in an automatic transmission.

Andy

 

I was gonna leave it alone but I at least have to say I know the clutch packs are not the same thing as a MT clutch. I wasn't born yesterday?