0 to 2% hardly seems statistically significant. There are so many other factors pertaining to gas mileage. You would have to have consistent conditions to prove that there is any increase in gas mileage due to just an oil change.

 

this is coming from mobilone's AFE website not from me or my own measurements.

Either way if you follow your own logic, even if it's 1% or .5% or 0% of an increase, given the long OCI and the high cost of gas;
the upcharge for synthetic oil is also a statistically insignificant cost as compared to overall operation and ownership ($12/12,000 miles versus $1600 for just fuel alone).

 

I've never understood why people site "cost" of synthetic as a reason to NOT use synthetic?

I mean, I think you choose your approach, and you go with it. I think for 99.9% of people, running Dino Oil, is perfectly valid and if they change on schedule they can get a long, long life from their vehicle's engine without worry that engine lubrication is a reason for any possible future failures.

That being said? My limited google, internet based research into the widely debated subject clearly suggests to me that synthetic is a better product. It offers benefits on start up, and other conditions that admittedly the average driver will probably rarely or never face....

To me? Oil change to Oil change...it's not that much bigger an expense. So the perhaps "placebo" affect that the piece of mind that I'm running a better product in my vehicle is worth the 20 bucks difference.

"If" 150,000 miles from now, my engine is in a little better shape, with a little less sludge...or wear? Then I'm happy, in the meantime? I feel I'm doing the best I can, for my engine...which is the ultimate goal?

I respect whichever approach anyone wants to embrace, but the debate seems like a waste of time. Clearly, standard approved grade, Dino Oils are fine....but also, clearly IMO synthetics are an evolution of the product and an improvement to the level of protection and attributes the product can provide.

Whether you want to pay for that improvement or that level of protection? Is purely up to the individual, and I don't think there is a right or wrong answer.

 

I find it interesting that people will advocate something like syn oil for their cars because of small benefits that may not be proven but they'll put all sorts of crap into their much more important and expensive to repair vehicle, themselves.

 

I find it interesting that people with little to no classroom or working knowledge (let alone actual hands-on experience) will chime in on subjects as complex as ECUs, Oil, Fuel or engine/suspension/drivetrain modifications.

Then go on to assume that their opinions are as valid as those of someone with a background in those fields.

But when has that ever stopped anyone on FF? God bless the internets.

Synthetic oils are proven, whether or not you believe that is your problem.

 

I've read studies that seem to support the benefits of syn oil, and others that have shown no benefit. I'm neutral on the matter and for the last few years have put syn oil in my car. Many people believe the studies that support their beliefs and ignore those that don't.

My Fit hasn't reached its first oil change yet.

 

Synthetic oil is the oil of the future, plain and simple as that.

 

When I was a kid they told me that seaweed was the food of the future.

I'm also waiting for my jet pack.

 

Is this where you practice your comedy? Because you say some funny sh*t sometimes.

Though it seems unintentional, more often than not.

 

Yeah, sure, instead of an actual audience I tailor all my jokes to the Honda Fit crowd and post them here for free.

 

Oh no - another comedy routine. Now I've gotta go digging again_

 

i believe synthetic oil is better then conventional oil...the biggest benefit is cold starts....the oil does not clump like convential oil in below freezing temps.
second, i change my synthetic oil ever 8000-10000 miles or 6 months. I find that synthetic lasts longer and doesn't sledge up.
I use Mobil 1 synthetic 5W20 and I'm very happy with it.
i would buy amsoil but it costs too much

 

So here's my thoughts, which you're free to discount since I didn't complete the physics PhD program at MIT:

It's human nature to want better things to exist. There are people who are convinced that organically-grown food has more vitamins, or that taking larger doses of vitamins are better because if a vitamin deficiency causes X then super-dosing will lead to negative X (vitamin lack means blindness? Then take tons and have x-ray vision).

So most of us want syn oil to have benefits.

Is it a better lubricant? Presumably, as it seems logical that uniform particle size means better lubrication. (although a lot of things that 'seem' logical turn out to be false)

Better lubrication= lower fuel consumption and possibly less wear on the moving parts.

Is the lower fuel consumption enough to offset the cost of syn oil? And does 'less wear' produce tangible benefits over, say, 200,000 miles? Seems to me that most of the fuel goes towards propulsion- turning the wheels (what we want it for) and a lot of it towards heat (waste) and fighting wind resistance.

So how much less wear is there? The study I read was of taxis- a double-blind study conducted over many, many miles and the parts looked the same. I don't know if that study looked at fuel consumption but unless it's a huge fleet that's harder to measure more than the margin of error, given that every taxi takes different trips.

Oh, yes, better lubrication may mean better cold-weather starts. That's great if it lets a battery make it through one more winter.

Or it could allow my car TO start tonight when I have a less-important club show, then die on Saturday when I have a more-important private show... (it's not cold here now but that's besides the point)

There's also the bragging benefit when you sell your car, as you never know what someone will find nice. I sold a car to a guy who seemed more enamored of the fact that it had a tape deck (this was obviously a long time ago) than anything else about the car. There weren't a lot of people interested in the car and so the tape deck paid for itself.

 

BC Just like our conversations on Fuel and ECU's.. there is a lot you are neglecting here but only because you don't have the basics down.

So I am going to have to discount your suppositions again. One doesn't need a doctorate to see that in most matters automotive you are in over your head. Stop it.

You do realize that wear is cumulative, yes? OOR bores, slap, blow-by etc. are gradual processes. Just like valve lash running out of spec (though that is not oil related), it adds up.

Again, because you do not understand or believe it, you should not try and discuss it like you do or try to make conclusions or pretend there is placebo effect among those who do understand it or know how to use things like "bearing operating condition v. stribeck curve" charts or know what a "centistoke" is a unit of.

Or understand the development of hydronamic lubrication.

If you think I sound arrogant in my responses, how do you think you sound to someone educated in the matter?

Ridiculous is one word that comes to mind. Stick to comedy, dude.

 

Everyone's main complaint about syn is always about cost; but rarely is the actual cost differential numbers brought up.

Regular oil is getting more expensive, while synthetics are getting cheaper...or in actuality, the oil companies have found methods to process groupIII oil to perform as good as true synthetic oils for marginally more then the traditional method and can label it as "full synthetic".

If syn. oil only cost $.01/quart more than conv. i think there would be no argument.

Every time someone does complain about syn. oil costs, they either never break down the prices, or they use group IV or boutique oils as their example, or don't take the minimal effort to look for oil sales. And for sure, the comparison to total operating cost is never brought up.

 

First I want to say that Ive use M1 with no problems for 15 years. There is benefits at cold starts, Turbos and racing and any heavy duty extended drains. As far as mpg, Ive not seen any real benefit. Oil never stayed in long enough for extended oil drains over the MM. Synthetics also have better natural deposit control but there is less harmful products in gasoline so its not that much of an issue as in the past.

 

A guy, a girl, and a priest walk into a synth oil dispensery....

Take my synth oil, please...

I take my synth oil everywhere, only it always finds it's way home...

My synth oil asked me to take it somewhere it's never been before. I said, 'how bout the kitchen'....

Rim shot!

I figured if we're doing oil jokes, I'd chime in



I mentioned on the previous page I'd make it till May or so on this synth oil change. My 15% light came on just last night. No such luck. We had a shit kickin winter here. Although, I really could push it another month probably, clearing the nag every time I start the damn car. But I won't go much longer. If I remember, the percentage drops quicker once you hit 15%. And I do think I'm seeing slightly less gas mileage now. About eight months on an oil change- works for me. And one thing I know, I'll be putting synth in again. I've used dyno all my life, but the Fit will get synth for it's life.

My synth oil doctor said I give you six months to live. I said but doc, I can't even afford to pay you. He said, I'll give you another six months....

I couldn't resist

Dan

 

Everybody seems to treat that 15% like it's magical, but it's only the number given in the owner's manual as when it starts dropping by 5% intervals instead of 10% and the manual says it's a notice that it will soon be time to change the oil. Not that it should be changed AT 15%. Although it is probably as good a place as any, rather than running down to zero.


Let's leave the insults for the schoolyard and the arrogance for the politicians. And the big words for Dennis Miller and the ghost of William F. Buckley.

I dated a neuroscience researcher. I didn't understand all of what she did but she was able to explain to me in general terms what she was working on, and I understood it. It wasn't her goal to prove how smart she was, it was her goal to have a conversation.

That said, of course wear is gradual. I'm not suggesting wear doesn't happen. I would just like to see some science, some statistics, even just some pictures of similar cars run similarly using different oil. To see if wear is different with syn vs. dino.

Science. You know, what people use when they're trying to prove or disprove a scientific hypothesis. Not 'my car sounds better' or 'it feels faster.' I've done that too, and I was wrong, as the science proved later. I wanted PTFE to improve my car so I thought it did. But I was wrong.

Science is what makes sense and helps educate. Not name-calling or bragging or defense-mechanisms.

Again, let's see the data. Because I didn't even see Mobil providing that, when I looked. They just talked about "Up to" some amount of fuel savings.

It's probably better but let's quantify better. We could use syn oil to lubricate our door hinges, too, and that might be an 'improvement' but is anybody here having any trouble opening the doors?

I asked UPS what oil they used, figuring that if anybody's done a study it'd be them. I suggested that other people here ask their local UPS shops, or ask FedEx or other large fleet-operator.

Nobody answered, that I know of.


And as I type this I realize that I have a relative who's a scientist who may know more about this than everybody here put together, so I'll ask him. He may not, because the engines he works on are jets, not piston, but he's an expert so maybe...

 

Well, I don't really think there should be too much debate about synthetic Oil being "proven"...at the very least, it's molecularly more stable than conventional dino Oil, and flows easier at start up. I think that's proven.

Where the debate comes in, is when people evaluate the "worth" of those realities in relationship to the average driver.

Maybe it's just where I'm living, but I find synthetic is about $3.00 more a quart than any high quality Dino...so the difference IMO is minimal as far as cost. Since I believe the superiority of synthetic IS proven, even if not fully utilized under most driving conditions by most drivers...it still is well worth it to me...

 

Which is about two hundred bucks over the life of a car, so the question is does it save enough gas or batteries or wear to make it worthwhile?

I use it, but I figure that at $200 it's pretty much a wash.