Someone said in the forum written in 2010 the OEM fuel injectors are 277cc. That's plenty big right?

Or is it 185cc?

 

I thought i saw 180 as the number for stock... But as for whether its enough, completely depends on what they are doing now. If, without the 5th injector, your 4 primary are running high (say above 3-4% at idle), then you can make use of bigger injectors.

Otherwise, i say... Let your tuner/mechanic do the evaluation.

 

After speaking with my mechanic today, he did not recommend me pouring anymore money into the fit than already have. He made a good point that I have wasted too much money and time on this supercharger that I shouldn't really been having to. So I've come to a final decision that I will be parting out the fit and return it to stock form.

 

The Honda Fit GE OEM stock injector is ~277 cc I believe. See https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/2nd-...injectors.html RC Engineering saturated 370 cc injectors and the RDX 410 cc injectors are two recommendations. RC 370 cc injectors seem to be a more ideal choice because the 190 HP Honda S2000 has 360 cc injectors. The Honda S2000 horsepower is slightly more than the output of the Sprintex Supercharger kit on our car. RDX 410 cc injectors are more preferable because they are cheaper and has good fuel atomization. Scion TC clips are needed with the RDX injectors. Toyota part number is 90980-11875. RC Engineering has a good Tech note page on injector sizing to help determine the proper injector size.

The Bosch supplementary injector, 028-158-193 is 370 cc. I believe fuel is injected as boost climbs. If I was to switch to AEM F/IC6 I would get larger injectors, ditch the Bosch supplementary injectors along with the SMT8L and install a boost based water injection system. You will need a block off plate for the supplementary injector port to mount the injector for the water injection system.

 

Well, for myself, I have spent a lot, but I don't see it as a waste.

Even the SMT8-L that I replaced with the AEM f/ic6, I don't think it was a waste, actually thought it was decent. The only complaint I had with it was the logger and log playback. In fact, its a little better than the AEM in that, you can SEE a lot of stats WHILE the car is running. The AEM does show most of them, but they're quite small and hard to see (but the log playback is awesome).

If you consider that, for myself, it was a matter of fuel pump preventing me from saying "it WORKS 100%!" It was fine from the get go. The remaining issues I got later on, I believe had more to do with me frying the unit in a flooded road.

But then again, I suppose part of it was the fact I didn't get aftermarket intake or exhaust. So my cost is just the supercharger, SMT and AEM fic (+harness).

Could your harness be the culprit of your troubles, possibly. But then again, who knows.

I'm not trying to convince you to keep the unit. I'm just saying, I came into this knowing full well it's a PRICEY purchase.

Actually, why not try this... remove the wiring harness, but leave the supercharger and everything else in place. The 3 bar MAP is not necessary for information, but just to keep the manifold from blowing air out the nipple it connects to (same with the 5th injector and IAT sensor). Then see how it runs.

I said many times that every change required a re-tune... but after having my electronics disconnected, I need to revise that. The tune is needed, in the case of the Fit, to keep a specific performance setup. The Fit appears to be quite capable of handling low boost.

~~~~~

That being said... it could be a "reading" error, but I just found in my last log... my injectors spiked a 101%!!!! Not sure what that's all about. But despite that, I still don't think I need bigger injectors (the spike seems to be right when I shift).

 

We know it's either the harness or piggyback causing my issues. My mechanic noticed that this new piggyback I got had a crack in the middle of the hard glue. You can see it from my previous picture. It's between the two ports. He also noticed that a little wiggle of one the base ports caused the piggyback to die out. He is thinking the base port is the culprit and the crack maybe the cause of it dying out when there's too much vibration esp during idle.

I knew from the start that it would be expensive but due to this issue, it has kept me from making anymore modifications I wanted on the fit. My car has literally been at his shop almost every month since I got the sc for similar issues with the piggyback or harness. Now who wouldn't be frustrated with that right? I had been patient as I possibly could. I love the sc when it's working properly. It would be a different story if say I got this after the warranty is past or only ran into issues most go you have, but everyone else's don't seem to be reoccurring like mine. Sprintex changing the piggyback to the interceptor tells me this brand we got are definitely sketchy.

I had big plans for this car but need to be realistic and know when to move on. I have other cars I've set my eyes own and don't want to spend anymore money on something that should have been an non issue in the first place which are defective pieces. Yes there can be a few here and there. It would be a different story if it was just a tuning issue. My mechanic also is very realistic and he is done enough fi installs to know that something is definitely wrong. He isn't money grubbing me for my issue either. In fact he is doing a lot of the labor for free since he feels somewhat responsible since he installed the sc. He had another mechanic take a look at it before also and the other guy came to the same conclusion.

I will still keep the fit for now as my I need a dd, but it will just have to be in stock form. Sigh.

 

Well, I guess all I can say... "To each, their own."

 

Indeed. I will live vicariously through you guys. Haha

 

I am still hoping for Hondata FlashPro.

Goobers, which DW fuel pump did you buy? Is it the DW200 rated at 255 liters per hour? Are your injectors spiking at 101% injector duty cycle? The maximum acceptable injector duty cycle is around 80%. An AEM UEGO wideband O2 sensor would be nice for logging air fuel ratio in the F/IC6. Are you going to create MAF clamp map in F/IC6?

 

I got the DW65c (rated at 265). It's the one that people use to replace the Evo X's fuel pump, same size as OE and direct replacement. The DW200 is probably too big to fit (1cm longer overall).

In the that log I took, there were only two spikes that went over 80% (1/4 of a second each), a third spike was almost 70%. All three (plus one more) were grouped together and I think it was me doing a hard acceleration. The 4th was only 34% and the total time from idle to finally cruising lasted about 14 seconds.

Unless the injectors are calibrated to display 100% at less than what is actually 100%, it has to be a glitch/error with a setting. It might have something to do with injector response time (default of 486?). I'm gonna see if there's a difference if I change the IRT in the fic. I mean, 100% should be the actual maximum, right? Plus, the injectors themselves shouldn't even get there (Bosch injectors listed at DW's site top out at 93%, not sure about other brands).

Aside from playing with the AFR skew (+/-3%, or even just +/-1%), I probably won't do much else. The default value of 5.86 is set in the fic for the MAF clamp... but in the log, it topped out at 4.7v (an instant before the injectors spiked at 101%). It doesn't seem like clamping it would do me much.

 

When my Evo X fuel pump goes bye-bye I will get the 265 lph DW65c. Stock Evo X fuel pump flow rate is ~250 lph at 40 psi and 230 LPH at 50 psi. I would think you would run rich with the DW65c but your car doesn't seem so. Someone in one of he thread claimed his car in stock form ran rich with the Walboro 255 lph HP. Testing revealed that at 40 psi the Walboro flow rate is 290 lph. I have a Walboro 255 lph HP in my 93 MR2 Turbo that dyno at ~300 HP on DynoJet.

 

Thats the thing, my car isn't stock anymore. Before i put in the new pump, my trims were pretty high due to the supercharger. Now, they're much lower. I think the Fit's ECU adjusting the extra air and fuel well enough. The sc pumping more air than factory while the fuel pump puts more fuel than factory... Just enough to compliment each other?

On the other hand, the w255 is measured at just 290 lph at 40 psi, but the DW65c is only 265 at 40 psi. I think its about 240 lph at 50 psi.

I have been worried all day though. Looking at the instal intructions for the DW65c on a Civic, they re-used the (spacer) clip that i left out... I hope i don't suddenly lose fuel pressure. Or maybe it is loose and letting enough fuel back out to not overload the line?!?

Edit: decided to pull the pump and check it out. Not sure if, in the process of pulling out the pump, the o-rings moved much or at all. But, once I got it out, I saw one o-ring (further from the end) sitting sitting halfway across the first rib. That meant it made it at least halfway across, if not all the way one rib.

Then I went to see if I could put or even force the spacer on. But there's no way that OE spacer would fit... the rib is just a hair bigger than the solid end. The flared "clip" end can stretch outward just enough to get over the rib, but that's about it... stuck at the tip of the nipple, rendering the spacer un-usable with the ribbed nipple version of the DW65c pump.

So, what I did was add the 3rd o-ring (the original) and then re-install the pump into the housing and since there was a bit of a gap where the electrical plug was, I looked to see how much room was left on the nipple. There's enough room for one o-ring to sit in that space and be completely in-effective. Two seems like it would be enough to seal the gap, so the third shouldn't be necessary but would be a safety precaution anyway. So, even if the pressure were enough to push all three, it should hold once they get to the base of the nipple.

Double checking the DW page, it looks like the 9-652-1009 is the smooth nipple version. However, it does seem like the extra clips, around the electrical connection port, might not allow it to fit.

 

It peaked at 24.9 PSIA...



At least, according to the AEM f/ic 6's built-in sensor.

BTW, to connect the hose that came with the supercharger to the hose that came with the f/ic, you need a 1/4" to 1/8" reducer.

P.S. Yeah, my injectors spiked up to 95% on the left cliff. Gah, maybe I do need to consider bigger injectors... that ain't cool yo.

 

Make the fuel system return style like older hondas, and use a pressure regulator like AEM to crank the fuel pressure up.

It was the only way I had my NA build in my del sol run properly. The injectors were 190cc from a d16y7 as my original d15b7 injectors had finally flowed their fill of fuel and were not worth rebuilding/cleaning.

I believe after a pressure increase, those 190cc injectors were flowing more like 225 or 230cc injectors. My fuel pressure peaked in the upper 50s or lower 60s. That mild build made 150whp, though the powerband was small

EDIT dont mind fuel pump flow capacities. Stock B16 civic SI fuel pumps were able to support over 250whp easily, and a Walbro 190lp was a big upgrade in flow capacity. Just a comparison for thought

 

That seems like a lot of extra work for very rare occasions.

That screen shot wasn't even 10 seconds of the whole log. Out of the entire 3-1/2 minute log, I spent a whole 0.4 seconds over 80% injection (or that cliff in the screen shot). And then I was in the redline the second half of that 0.4 seconds (RPM peaked at 6993).

So, again, not a situation I find myself often... unlike the previous issue of triggering limp just from holding high rpm.

 

"Thirsty" is the last adjective that I would ever have used to describe this engine, even with mild boost. Interesting.

 

Finally get to jump in on this thread. I completed my install yesterday and have put 200 miles on the new supercharger.

Good:
- Started right up and was able to drive off, Car feels good. The supercharger really compliments the car and it still feels very OEM but just ..better in every way. Except gas mileage. Getting 30 mpg on the first 200 miles. I usually get 38.

Bad:
- I got hit with a limp mode once, it happened about 20-30 mph and I wasn't trying very hard at all. I quickly shut off the engine and bump started it(Im used to EOC so I recovered fast) Scangauge caught misfire on all cylinders.
-I also have either pinging or a rattle around 2800-3400 rpm. Cant tell if its knock or not. I started with a 1/2 tank of 87/93 with an octane booster. I filled up at 200 miles with 93 and I can still hear it. Scanguage sees nothing, timing looks normal and everything.

Supercharger was installed via instructions, stock air box, stock spark plugs, etc..

So far I am happy with it, I just need to resolve the pinging/rattling pronto so I can feel more comfortable.

 

bad quality gas?

Are you using the SMT8-L piggyback? Have you tried uploading a different tune? Try the conservative tune.

Scangauge probably isn't much better than Ultragauge in the knock department... in that, neither would see the actual knock (Honda's HDS can read knock count), and only see if the timing got advanced or retarded (retard can indicate knock, but not always). By the time either tells you something related to it, it's a DTC and you've limped (as you saw first hand).

edit: maybe you need the valves adjusted? Hum, I probably do.

~~~~~

If you look back through my posts in this thread, you'll see I also had misfires... but mine only occurred when I forcibly held the RPM high. And the misfires have since went away... though, I'll be honest, I can't say for sure which solved it, only that I did two things.

I un-did the wire harness, not completely, but enough to put the MAF and crank wires back as "un-intercepted." I mainly did that because my piggyback unit was either not getting power (possibly poor wire harness connection) or not internally routing it properly (ie, fried unit). For some reason, it would only work with my laptop plugged in. So the re-wiring allowed me to unplug my laptop. I unplugged the piggyback from the wire harness since it was no longer getting the two signals.

The other thing was replaced the fuel pump. Because I had a theory that the stock pump simply wasn't keeping up with the injectors. It wasn't immediate, but over a period of time (5-15 seconds, depending on gear and RPM), the pressure in the fuel line would be too low for the injectors. I was able to trigger limp in 1st gear after only 6 seconds, going from idle to 6k RPM. A few days before that, 2nd gear took a full 15 seconds of holding it at roughly 5200 RPM.

While I didn't do both at the exact same time (re-wired at night, then swapped pump next day), I didn't do any testing in-between. That's why I can't be sure my theory is correct or not. However, for a few days before I did the re-wiring, I zeroed out the tune. That, in theory, should make the car act like there's no piggyback (just like the re-wiring)... but I still tripped limp mode in that set up.

 

I am not supercharged, and I also have a rattle or metallic sound around 2k rpm and around 3-3200 rpm.

I am 90% sure its a heatshield rattling. loose bolt, or road debris got up and bent it closer to chassis/body and now makes noise.

 

Thanks for the reply, My wife is currently in Pre-labor with the third kid so I'm a bit tied up for a while, but I'll pick at this until I figure out what that noise is and how to fix it. I need to order my 6ft usb and get that installed so I can hook my computer to see if I can get anything interesting to come up.