I don't doubt your facts about synthetic oils. However, I can't find anything from Honda that recommends their usage in 07 Fits. I have always had the dealership change the oil in my Fit and they have never mentioned switching to a synthetic blend or straight synthetic oil. They charge more for the OW 20 so I would think that they would be selling that service to increase their profits.

I have been using Synthetic Turbo Jet oil in turbine airplanes since I started flying them in 1977. I am very aware of the advantages of products such as Mobil Jet 1 Oil. However, I am not convinced that spending the extra money in an automotive application where the owner's manual doesn't require a synthetic oil or blend will make any difference. The temperatures and pressures and RPM of turbine engines requires a synthetic lubricant. The turbine section of the P&W JT15D engine rotates for takeoff at 32,000 RPM, while the Fan section only rotates at 16,000 RPM. Normal oil pressures run 60 to 80 PSI. The oil tank endures temperatures from +40 degrees C at in Texas in the summer to -50 degrees C at 40,000 ft. That change in temperature occurs in about 30 minutes. Automobile engine applications don't operate at those extreme conditions.

My 2013 Accord requires Synthetic OW 20 or a full Synthetic oil in the owner's manual. That's what I will do. My 07 Fit and 2000 Accord V6 seem very happy running on regular oil. The Accord has never used any oil between changes and the color of the oil between changes at 7,500 miles is always amber. The Fit is the first Honda I have ever owned that showed a small decrease in oil level.

 

I was just pointing out that they make 0w20 in semi synthetic and its OK to use in all Honda cars that require 20 weight oil. Before that it was 5w30 and that is OK too. I've used 0w20 since 2004 until 07 when it became impossible to get. http://www.bernardiparts.com/Images/...hart102910.gif

 

I was just at my Honda dealer this morning and this is what my service advisor told me. All Hondas since 2012 are requiring 0w20 which is a full synthetic motor oil. The 1st and 2nd generation Fits have never required it. However, any car could substitute synthetic for mineral oil since synthetic oil was first available.

They charge eight dollars difference for synthetic oil. Your maintenance minder has no idea which oil is in the crankcase. It will tell you to change the oil at the same time regardless. If you think it's worth eight dollars to change to synthetic oil than that's your prerogative.

 

WallyWorld has 0W-20 Mobil 1 for $23.44 for 5 quarts; $4.68 a quart retail. You don't suppose your dealer has a high profit margin do ypu?
BTW Wally also has Valvoline and I think Castrol in 0-20W.
The thinner oil gets into closer toleranced parts easier than 5W-30. Thats not a necessity for hard driving where the shear strength is vital and synthetic formulations have that covered well. don't think I'd use 0W-20 for a 25 hour race though. i need to ask some of te ZZChump Car racers what they use; course the cars they run aren't exactly first owner ones but it would be interesting what they use.

 

I often wonder this as well. How much is too much for 0W-20? What does it take to break it down enough where it's a problem?

Conventional wisdom (or ignorance?) tells me I should go thicker since the viscosity will break down from heat, but is that old school logic no longer applicable with synthetic properties?

 

Of course he has a high profit margin. That includes a genuine Honda filter and a new washer for the drain plug. He also has someone doing the labor who is not me.

 

There is a way smaller profit margin for oil because the price does not change like fuel does. My dealer changes the oil with 0w20 and rotates the tires for 29.99 dollars with coupon. And I have gotten free oil changes and stuff directly from Honda for a few oil changes for free. Honda supplies the oil to the dealer in bulk. CP is the supplier and has expanded its operations and probably has a bigger operation than Mobil for PAOs.

 

I think you guys need to check on ebay! search for brad penn or amsoil

Both brands meet even tighter regulations and standards then the off-the-shelf bullcrap.

Brad Penn's fuel economy line (black bottle) has proven on several occasions that it still has the racing background (zinc and phosphorous content) while still meeting all 50 state emissions regulations. I plan on using it in my next oil change, as I see several accounts of CRZ owners getting on average 2mpg better with it. Most of the CRZ owners I saw responding were standard 6 speed owners, not CVT.


Ive used Amsoil in the past with great results, and I do believe it was one key element that kept my turbo crx alive. I mean hell, I was doing wonders with that motor, 300+whp on a fully stock block d16a6, which is normally said to blow its cork after 180-200whp!!

The more I read about indepth oil programs/analysis, the mroe I am starting to HATE what they offer on the shelf.


Did you guys know the best mobil1 offered at autozone is BARELY above the level of the storebrand crap? Scares me, because I know the storebrand stuff almost always is the lowest quality on stock!

 

There are blender and producers. The base stocks you're talking about is all the same because there is a limited amount of producers. The additives are all similar too but there is more producers of them. They still all use the same chemistry but have there own patents. Kendall and Mobil including Shell have their own blending and producing procedures and are not just blenders. March 2013 - Test Results for AP

 

I don't sweat having the oil level at halfway between the marks on the stick.. That's as low as it has ever dropped even when driven hard on boost.. When I have topped it off to the top mark it will drop to half again before the oil is changed.. When I change the oil I just fill it to half between the marks.

 

I don't sweat being at halfway either. But that also depends on how many miles are on the oil and the conditions I drove it. Premium gas also lowers the oil temps which lowers the wear conditions from 2000 to 3000 rpms as long as you drive it long enough to burn off condensation from short trips.

 

premium gas lowers temps? Where did you hear that garbage?

gas quality has nothing to do with oil temperatures! Slap the person who told you that!

 

I am not sure where you got that bit of data, but the higher octane fuel has nothing to do with the oil temperature or short trips. Honda recommends 87 octane gasoline. If you want to put in the higher octane then you are doing no harm as well as no good. You are however burning up money out your tailpipe. Hopefully you have some excess money to burn.

Even cars that recommend higher octane fuel can run on the lower octane but will suffer some reduction in performance. The computer in the cars have knock sensor. If you are running a lower octane gasoline the computer will retard the timing to prevent the knocking which is harmful to the engine but reduces your performance. The Fit runs perfectly on 87 octane gasoline.

As a followup, I just checked my wife's oil and it has not gone down any since the last time I checked it when I started this thread. The MM says it has 40% life remaining and the oil is still golden in color.

I am not going to add anything but take the car in for an oil change when it reaches 15% to 10% on the maintenance minder.

 

Higher octane lower oil temps because all the fuel which is less fuel is burned and goes out the exhaust. The main reason your mpg is not consistent is that the i vtec which operates from 1000 to 3500 econ cam is not engaged unless there is no knock condition. Higher octane is needed and I have seen the lower temps of the engine when it operates around MBT and that the difference in timing effects oil temps and even spark plug temps. The higher timing always higher spark plug temps which cleans the plugs so there is no fouling. Everything I have said in all the threads have been proven and I have used. I am happily getting over 60 mpg on the highway and averaging 40 plus average mpg now and had my best mpg of 49 mpg tank.

The difference in oil temps is about 20 degree celsius cooler from MBT which is 30 degrees to 20 degrees timing from knock retard.

If you're happy the way your car runs on regular great BTW I have been driving my van lately to keep the miles off the lease and getting 25 mpg with regular on my commute which is more than some of you guys.

I just keep responding for the ones that keep doing the same thing expecting different results and complaining.

 

I did nothing to you for you to respond like that. If you don't understand fine but getting violent just shows your immature.

 

The oil I was losing wasn't from a leak so my guess is that it was lost in the form of mist from the cam/valve train cover PCV hose into the air flowing into the throttle body.. There is an oil/air separator on the side of the engine block but it must not be able to work properly when the oil level is above halfway between the marks on the dipstick.. I expect to have oil blowby with 10PSI of boost and didn't have any oil loss before unless I was driving very hard and using 0-20 weight oil when the car was stock .. Once oil is in the intake system it can end up in the combustion chamber and drops octane rating below the recommended minimum of 87 octane and possibly could cause damage to the pistons.. Even if it doesn't damage pistons the ECU will cut back severely on advance of ignition timing that can be witnessed on a ScanGauge.. Over time excessive carbon build up in the combustion chamber, catalytic converter and (or) O2 sensors can occur.

 

That is a very interesting idea. Can you please give us your source. So instead of buying 87 octane I should skip 89 octane and just go right to 91 to get better milage and cooler oil temperatures. Is that a correct statement?

 

I sure would love to see the original source of this. First because using premium fuel it burns slower and you get a longer burn putting MORE heat into the piston tops which could conceiveably put more heat transfired into the oil supply not less so the engine would run hotter if anything.

You also get more ignition timing added by the ECM which makes more power from more complete burn time and power is HEAT so you are also passing MORE heat into the oil from advanced ignition timing which would contribute to hotter engine temps not cooler.

But please let us know more about this theory if you find anything.

 

This is why he is saying lower temps between 2k and 3k. He's not saying lower temps throughout the range, but the higher octane allows the "econ cam" to operate like it's supposed to. I don't know a whole lot about the wizardry that is the GD L15 and it'd funky eco valve design though.

Here comes the gas debate

 

Ohhhh nooooo... Flash flood warning!!! Another octane storm...