Stabilizes means that higher octane wont have a benefit and deposits are at its limit because of losses in compression. Carbon is a barrier and is hard to remove. Document Display | NSCEP | US EPA

 

Maybe that's the problem? If you know you beat on the car, why would you rule out (among other things) piston slap on the basis of the logical fallacy that is appeal to authority. Yes, piston slap can be intermittent, not all cycles are symmetrical, nor all combustion events. Engine temperature isn't static either which would affect slap among other things.

Honda has not been able to ignore the laws of physics. Wear and OOR bores are always possible.

And FFS its an EGR valve as in Exhaust Gas Recirculation.

You have pages of posts amounting to weeks of dithering.

What have you actually done thus far to remedy or diagnose the issue?

At this point I would bet money you are just recently aware of a noise that has been in the background the whole time, and is just a product of wear and tear that you have blown up into some boogeyman.

This thread is tiresome and going nowhere.

Lots of talk and speculation.

Edit: Marrk do not even start on the subject of fuel grade/components. You clearly don't have the faintest clue on what you are getting your feet wet with.

 

I'll see if my car sounds the same when I start it after it sits overnight.. It is always terribly loud when first cranked after sitting all night and quiets down after it has reached operating temperature... If there is any difference I'll see what area the sound is coming from with the stethoscope.... I expect that the sounds will again be from the EGR valve and fuel line/ fuel injector rail coupling.

 

You are right about some of this.

The "dithering" is a waste of your time, but it helps me think things through.

I only have a limited amount of time to address this problem, and the problem is not always present.

I have taken a few (small) steps: the techron; a valve adjustment; oil, air cleaner and spark plug changes.

The dealer heard the noise and said it was not normal. I didn't leave it with him because I didn't trust him to do good job on an intermittent problem. And, again, this is a DD. It would have cost me a day's work.

You are right. I am not an engineer or a mechanic. I'm just a garden-variety *ssh*le. But I do my best.

I won't post here anymore. I'll just lurk and wait for you to solve the problem. Surely, your ego demands that you solve it and show how right you are. Right?

Good luck.

 

My "asshole and ego status" not-withstanding, you have been given numerous posts full of sound advice, many of which you dismiss out of hand because of whatever intuition you believe to possess.

I am fully understanding of what it is like to have a DD in need of service, but if indeed it is a major issue and you are driving it and "beat the piss out of it" you clearly aren't that concerned. You are afraid of losing a days pay, and understandably so.

However if this is truly of grave concern, yet you continue to wait for whatever excuse you can come up with... what are you going to do when the day comes where the engine has catastrophically failed because of your complacency and negligence?

Then you might be out a whole short-block or worse.

Take a video with sound, or visit a couple mechanics for an inspection and estimate. If you don't trust someone, don't stick around. However if you are unwilling to do that it will never be resolved unless you decide to swing a wrench yourself.

Take it to autozone rent a compression or leak down tester. Do any of the myriad basic things that anyone here is fully capable of.

My frustration is more that the community has come out to help and you keep dancing around the problems you don't like.

Were there metal shavings in the oil you drained? Did you honestly even check?

Spark plugs aren't going to fix a presumed mechanical issue. The air cleaner won't do shit either. It's not the throttle body, I would bet you money its not the EGR or the fuel system.

That leaves you with the options you want to discard out of inconvenience. So get mad at me all you want but in the end its not my problem.

Everyone here has turned out to help, you have yet to heed any advice that cause even the least bit of inconvenience or actual diagnostics and work.

It's a reciprocal or oscillating noise when present correct?

 

that's is actually the first thing I checked for when I noticed the sound. I continuously check when I am doing my oil changes and to date, never have seen a shard. so confusing to me.

 

Ask your own question now >
I have a 2008 Honda Fit Sport 5 Speed Manual 1.5L 4 cyl SOHC 16 Valve Engine

Mileage is 65,000 miles. When the engine has just been started from a cold start, there is a noticeable "tick tick tick tick tick" sound in the engine. It goes away after about ten minutes of driving. I live in a very cold climate, so I am very conservative about getting up to highway speeds from a cold start, I usually wait until the tick tick tick has subsided before I hit 55 (ten minutes). I cahnge my oil as per the manual 5k with a new filter each time.

Should I be concerned about this noise at all? Is there any damge being done by my ignoring the noise? What should I do?

Thanks VERY much for answering my question.
Submitted: 306 days and 18 hours ago.
Category: Honda
Value: $18
Status: CLOSED













Optional Information

Country: United States
Make: Honda
Model: Fit Sport
Year: 2008
Engine: 1.5 L SOHC 16 Valve












Accepted Answer




Hello, I would love to help you with any Honda or automotive questions. The noise you are hearing when cold is piston slap. Piston slap is when the the piston in the cylinder changes direction, the side of the piston hits the cylinder wall. As the engine warms up the piston to cylinder wall clearance decreases due to heat expansion. (noise goes away) This noise is in many of the Fits and Insights after a a few miles get on them. It is not a harmful noise, just a slight disturbance when a cold. Just to put your mind at ease we did replace a few under warranty for this symptom and now 25K miles down the road the engines are doing the same thing. The only thing I can recommend is that you make sure to use the proper 0w-20 oil. There is not to much to do about the noise at this point but it would almost be considered a normal symptom of this engine with your mileage. There is many of these engines with 125K+ miles and the tick has been there for a long time with no other harm to the engine.

Expert: Honda man Pos. Feedback: 97.8 % Accepts: 315 Answered: 2/2/2011 Honda Service Technician
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Which would seem to fall in line nicely with my suspicions from earlier posts, and as recently as post #122.

I don't just make this sh*t up guys.

In spite of what he says regarding the oil weight, if the bores are worn and it is slapping, a heavier oil could help clean up some of the noise. Like a 5w30.

 

I gave 5w30 a shot for a couple of oil changes and it didn't seem to make a difference.

 

Than your PTWs may have opened up considerably and it will make noise as it pleases. lol

Have you tried a thicker cold weight like a 10w or 15w?

 

I didn't try anything heavier than 5w30. I'm not really interested in deviating from Honda's recommendations on oil weight quite that much. I suppose for experimental sake it wouldn't be a bad idea. Anyone want to try it? It's a little cold up here for that right now.

 

The initial Honda recommendations are to account for the intended tolerances of the engine. There is a pressure relief port on the oil filter housing so switching to a 10w or 15w wouldn't create any issues. Especially since these engines rely on high pressure to operate the VTEC system among other items.

Even then, a 10w30 is no thicker than a 0w30 when hot.

I agree it is a bit cold for a 15w in your neck of the woods at this time of year.

 

Hey guys. I have the same sound, so I figured I would post a video of it. I have been dealing with noticing this sound for over a year. I am a honda certified tech.

the variables are:
-below 1000rpm
-engine has to be past cold start idle (so it drops to about 800rpm), but not entirely warmed up yet, a 1 mile drive will do it
-if engine is completely warm, the sound is almost completely gone

I have tried to hear it from the valve cover, but it is easiest to hear from a stethoscope between intake runners on the block below the head. I have determined it is one of a few things that would make sense with those variables. It has to be either piston slap or spark knock. Premium fuel does not change the sound, and therefore I think spark knock is less likely. Piston slap makes sense as when the engine is in a state of warming, there is still too much piston to wall clearance, hence it goes away after a long drive.

you can really hear the noise at about :47 to :53

Fit engine rattle - YouTube

 

Thanks for your post, Kirko.

What, if anything, should be done about the noise?

 

Well the noise could become detrimental to the engine at some point if it is indeed piston slap. What could eventually happen is the cylinder walls will develop scoring and allow oil to pass the piston rings, making the engine smoke and consume oil. I have probably had this sound for a couple years, at least as far as I remember hearing it.

Piston slap doesn't develop over time, it would be present from the beginning as it is from improper piston to wall clearance from when the engine was built. My engine does not consume any oil that I am aware of, nor does it smoke. I have a fiber optic snap-on bore camera that I may take some pictures and see if there is any vertical scoring on the cylinder walls.

Another thing that I did notice is that it doesnt seem to go away with a cylinder cancellation test, which would seem to be either all the cylinders have piston slap, or it is another issue at hand.

My last oil change (I have 80k on the car) I strained the oil through a painters funnel, and there was no debris at all, not even a shimmer in direct sunlight. If it was a bottom end problem with years of usage, I would think that I would be able to see something in the strainer.

I do know that sounds do resonate, and even though I cannot hear the noise in the valve cover with a stethoscope, it doesn't necessarily mean its not coming from the valve train. The noise is not rythmic enough for me to think valve train.

If it IS indeed piston slap, the only way to fix it is to do an engine rebuild and cut the bores over with oversized pistons to attain the proper clearance.

 

Thanks.

It seems that people who have this noise are not experiencing performance problems or failures, even on 100+k mi. engines. I'm at 66K mi., and I have the noise and some vibration, but my engine as of yesterday was performing well, burning no unusual oil and not smoking. Also, my oil has no signs of metal.

You say that, if it is piston slap, it should have been present from the beginning. This is not the case with my car. The noise started for me at approx. 50k mi. and worsened over time.

I am worried about the vibration, which seems to be power train related, not suspension. It could be engine/transmission mounts, but I didn't see anything wrong when I looked at them.

 

Not having my hearing as when I was younger and having a lot of background noise , but the clicking doesn't sound like piston slap.
I'll go out on a limb and suggest you check around the engine, It siounds like something loose making contact rather than piston slap. transmission, and half shafts for something light weight that is contacting another item. Silly as it may sound we have seen something 'attached' to the flywheel pulley, or even the timing belt (chain), and even a half shaft that only created the tapping when the car was moving. Even on a valve in the head. Worse, even on a crankshaft.
PS piston slap isn't always from initial building of any engine, more often it occurs with wear.
Being of the 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' crowd, I say leave it alone BUT DOCUMENT THE HECK OUT OF THE SOUND. Having that dated you tube vid is good but get it without so much extraneous noise. And ask Honda CS what the engineering staff thinks it is, not so much for expecting an answer but for documenting your observation.
good luck.

 

It sounds like mine Kirko. I also have the same variables that you've listed however mine needs to be extra warm before it'll quite. Like driven pretty hard or at high speeds for quite a while.

 

I listened to your video. This sounds exactly like piston slap... to me, anyway. My experience is with aircraft engines. This is a common occurrence with small aircraft engines. They are high compression of 10:1 or greater. They wear into this condition and are not created this way. And, considering how operation of an aircraft engine is more critical, considering failures in the air, it surprised me, at first, many years ago, to learn that this is not even considered a condition for rebuild. It is not considered dangerous, in other words, otherwise, the FAA would be all over the thing. Of course, I noticed, that the sound is prevalent at idle and vanishes as the AC is run at takeoff and cruise power of about 2500 rpm. I hope my rantings aren't too much off Fit topic, but had to comment about what it sounded like to me.

 

Much appreciated, einstein.