Pioneered or developed a cam for the L 1.5 port the heads, put some valves and springs so the little 1.5 can rev into the 8k range.... Reliably and make some decent n/a numbers...140ish whp

 

Because as wonderful as all that sounds not enough of us are willing to put up the money when the time comes to produce the prototype run of cams. If fifteen people say "Hell yeah, I'll buy one!" only five of them have the money and when the company asks for payment in advance and only five people step up they lose interest real fast. Especially when you figure that same company has no problem selling every cam they make for the K-series, year in and year out. I don't mean to discourage you, but the fact of the matter is, not too many Fit owners are willing to push the envelope for NA power. Look at how many fanantics there are on the FI side, then compare that to the number of Fits sold in North America last year alone. That will tell you why there aren't any NA parts beyond the basic I/H/E bolt-ons.

 

A friend of mine knows someone who's ported the L15A head. Supposedly good results, but I don't know the guy personally.

There's also a number of people that will tell you it can't be done...something about it very easy to remove too much material. Or they say the NA route isn't cost-effective.

No news yet AFAIK on anything else regarding head-work - wilder cams or beefier valves and springs. I have heard of better pistons and rods.

By the way I think J's Racing made wilder cams for the GE8's L15A7? Correct me if I'm wrong

 

There is also a company offering billet blanks to be ground to spec set by the customer. They were originally focusing their effort at the FI guys to get better numbers out of the supercharger/turbo set-ups that are already available. I would love to go crazy with mine, but it is, and will remain, my DD and I don't want to sacrifice all the great things about this car (reliabilty, economy, lack of idiosyncratic behaviors) at the alter of of performance.

 

According to a group called RCA from Singapore I was talking to about a month ago:




Here is Video proof:
YouTube - 8000rpm Honda FIT 1.5 RS

 

Valvetrain and Cams would be nice, specifically more radical ramp rate and lift would be nice, maybe a slight bump in duration.

There is a guy on fleaBay, EngineBldr, or something to that effect who does quality swirl polished, back cut SS valves and titanium retainers for a whole bunch of applications Foreign and Domestic, I bet you could contact him about our motors and he might consider it.

I don't know if I would want to port our cylinder heads though.. velocity would drop, low rpm cylinder filling (VE) would suffer and so would torque. Since the late 90's the trend towards smaller ports, valves and runners on OE cars was to produce more torque, unless you are running a pure drag setup you would probably benefit more from a stock head, maybe a new multi-angle valve grind and a polish, blend and knife-edging to take care of any casting flashes and rough seams.

Effectively, if you have ports that are too large, and flow falls below ~0.6Mach things get turbulent, fuel doesn't atomize as easily and thoroughly and the amount of fuel spray that clings to the walls increases changing your enrichment requirements... and all sorts of fun repercussions.

I would be curious to see a dynograph of your friends work though.

 

Catcams N.V. Honda 1.5L 16v VTEC

^ Cat Cams UK makes cams for the L15A(1). I haven't noticed anyone running them on the forum here and I've also read a lot of mixed commakesments about the quality of them. Pauter Rods makes 4340 rods and CP Pistons , of course, forged pistons but they have lower compression which wouldn't help NA applications. I haven't heard of any one producing valves or springs though.

 

Dayum! Check out the drag cam at the bottom!

309*/292* @ .050", Max lift of 0.472" Intake/0.435" Exhaust

That would sound wild in a 1.5l I4, like a cammed V8. It would also be useless on the street below ~5k rpm

Stock is listed as:
235*/251* @ .050", Max Lift of 0.382" Intake/0.356 Exhaust

 

Same here. I have my reservations about the gains on the supposed port and polish job; it sounds a little too good to be true. *shrugs*

 

There's someone here on the forum that rebuilt is L15A, but it ended up like being a huge waste of time & money, in the end i think he just sold it... They're was also something about Bisimoto moddifying cams, but i don't remember the details...

Sorry if i'm not helping much

 

Does anyone know pricing on those cams from Cat Cams? I'm curious as to the cost-effectiveness of it. I'm sure if you figure in some good math formulas and a little time and research, you could figure out a decent estimate on gains. But if they want an arm and a leg for a camshaft.... might not be worth anything. K20 swap would probably be the best bet, plenty of parts out there for them, and they're not too expensive to come by. As grtpumpkin said, mine also is a DD and I enjoy the benefits of the lower power to drive, and gains of the fuel mileage to want to alter too much.

 

As for myself, I would go the FI route before K20, as it adds about 200 pounds in front... I think there are nice gains to be made with the L15, but the best asset of the Fit is handling, and i would'nt compromise on this...

 

I don't know that you entirely understand what is involved with a K swap the cost or the implications...

Unless you have goals of >300whp, theres little to justify the something like ~$6K average and thats if you can swing the labor yourself. There are parts for the Fit, con rods, pistons, etc.

So you might want to look at some real world prices and results before we start talking about cost-efficiency.

As noted, the K swap compromises our handling and balance. This alone would be a big issue to those of us who like corners and transient response, etc...

 

Well, I have always seen some net gains from port/polish/blending, gasket matching and knife-edging. But sometimes this comes at a sacrifice of mid-range and low end torque, which is more apparent on NA cars.

My most recent OCD port job was on a 2.0L Turbo after a tensioner crapped out and the timing belt skipped eating all 8 of my then-new SS natrium-filled intake valves and nicking the tops of my brand new forged pistons.

After going to town on the throttle body elbow,, throttle body & butterfly, intake manifold, cylinder head, combustion chambers, AND exhaust manifold I picked up 4.xlbs/ min at the same redline and the same boost.

Or about 30whp.

It is important to note this was on a 18 year old, 12x,xxx mile long block that had previously never been opened, with lots of EGR gunk built up and nasty casting flaws.

The key is smooth transitions. It takes time though. I put a little over 40 hours of labor into that job over the course of a week.

My favorite part is the dramatic shift in exhaust note. Much deeper.

Now for comparison, a couple weeks after the Port/Polish work I swapped my 256* duration and 0.331" Max Lift OE cams for a 274* and .411" Max Lift custom grind and saw another ~3.x lbs/min gain at the same 17-18psi and 7000rpm redline.

This was on the ragged edge of the 60% efficiency islands 34.x lbs/min on the 14B's compressor map, so they could've allowed for more but the turbo was starting to run out of breath.

Now though, that project has a >65lb/min turbo and a meth kit... lol

 

Honestly the fit as is has little too no torque.. I find myself taking it up over 3k just to keep up with traffic. So not much would be lost say bumping up compression to say 11:1 a cam that would work in the mid to high rpm band, valves and springs to hold it up. Truth is a 4 cylinder has to spin to make any power, hell who wouldn't want an 8.5k rev limit

 

Well, till you have the ability to raise the rev limit, tune and support it with the appropriate valvetrain all you are going to do with a longer duration cam is kill what little low and mid range you have, and then have a shorter powerband afterward. Not too mention less vacuum at idle for accesories, lumpier idle which hurts voltage and a less streetable ride over all.

Remember, though the stock cam may be able to see 8k rpm without ill effects (according to RCA), a more aggressive cam will likely have your pistons and valves getting well aquainted with eachother on the stock springs and retainers at those speeds.

If you think waiting till 3k rpm is a pain what do you think will happen with a more radical cam? The stock cam provides a relatively flat torque curve, so you would likely be sacrificing alot of area under the curve, which would far outweigh a slight gain at peak VE.

A bump in compression would also require better fuel, like 93oct atleast.

Every motor I've built over 11:1 has been race gas or ethanol only because of knock concerns. So theres that to contend with as well.

Also, I disagree with your sentiment that a 4 cyl has to rev high to make any power.

A properly matched forced induction system and cams can create plenty of low and mid range torque while still accomodating lots of top end flow, without requiring expensive headwork and rotating assembly to rev high in an NA application. Think about the beating high rpm gives your main and rod bearings.

If I can make the same peak HP at 10k rpm NA that I can make at 6800rpm F/I (and consequently more torque, earlier) why not?

High rpm is more stress than just high cylinder pressure. Not to mention all the frictional losses when you are seeing near F1 piston acceleration rates at 8k rpm and above (second derivative, not piston speed).

It's all about making sure everything is supported and complimentary.

I know far too many people who have bolted on thousands of dollars in shiny new parts only to end up less happy than they started. Mod smart, be happy.

Another thing to consider is oiling.. we have mechanical oil pumps. So at 8k rpm or more for extended periods like 3rd or 4th gear WOT pulls you will be draining your pan and filling the head faster than it can empty which can then starve other parts of the engine and in some cases blow past valve stem seals and guides. Since oil is for cooling and lubrication this quickly becomes a bad idea.

Also, to re-address your original post, reving out another 1.5k rpm over stock and gaining 50whp is more than a little optimistic, if it is even possible. You would need to flow another 5-7lbs/min to do this, and when our asthmatic little L15A is only seeing 12-13lbs/min in stock trim, you are asking for a 33% bump from a cam change in a 1500cc motor that only pushes ~350cfm @ 7000rpm (ASSuming 90% VE).

 

All I put is 93 octane.....I'm relatively new to the import scene, but in the domestic side a head and cam deal costs much less than a FI setup and makes equal power on a stock bottom end. Take a look at the mugen civic rr that thing is happy at 8k, I'm sure it has the supporting mods to keep it going, if that 2.0liter can do it I'm dead sure the 1.5 can and be streetable just like the civic rr. Bisimoto says they can reprofile the cam to your specific needs although he didn't specify price.

 

Well there are no heads available and only a handful of of cams for the L15A.. so you would be better off to take your head and get it extrude honed, as far as the cams.. maybe 10-15* more duration, but the biggest difference would come from steeper ramp rates and lift, both require measuring piston to valve clearances and some beefier springs.

The rest of your post is making way to many universal sweeping statements.

I too have had my hand in more than a few big blocks, blown and all motor... While there are often nice gains to a new head and cams, for the same cost a Weiand/KenneBell/Vortech/Eaton superchager will net you far more, often with just a pulley change keeping you from yet more power.

You could accomplish a similar effect if you just get some shorter con rods and a bigger stroke for a given block and end up in a similar spot, though top end might suffer.

Or long con rods and a shorter stroke to improve rod ratio and wind it real high as an NA.

The civic rr also was built to exacting near OE standards to handle seeing those rpms daily, the stock Fit was not.

The Fit also suffers from 25% less displacement. Again, I am trying to illustrate that you might be a bit too hopeful with some of these suggestions.. besides if we are going to discuss streetability, i don't normally associate that with something that needs to wind to the stratosphere to create the bulk of its power.

When most people talk about streetability they are referring to throttle response and low/mid range torque. An anemic high winding NA 4cyl like the F20 is not especially mean on the street.

A small A/R turbine attached to a small or medium frame compressor on a 1.5 or 2.0 that starts boosting in the mid 2k rpm range and can generate a couple hundred lb-ft by 3500-4000rpm is far more streetable in this case.

 

My particular heads and cam was a third the cost of FI. Compression was bumped up a notch the car made 400 to the ground on stock bottom end. Had I gone FI I would have spent three times what I spent and would have been limited to 4lbs of boost thanks to the high compression the motor already had. Boosted I was looking to make a bit more 430+ but it would have cost that much more..... I can't copy posts but something to the effect like you stated with extrude hone porting and a cam to match

 

Are we talking about FI kits or DIY when comparing to heads and cam(s)?

What platform?

Plenty of setups can create 400whp on stock internals. A guy named Mike Rizziotti ran 9.9x @ 140mph on a 2.0 Turbo and 110,000mile bottom end yesterday.

http://www.youtube.com/user/scdaddy7.../0/WeWVBPShSXs

Compression doesn't necessarily limit boost, and an 11:1CR certainly doesn't limit you to only 4psi by default, nor does any CR give you a boost limit...

Who told you that? The 4psi number is probably more out of concern for something block or bottom end related, like con rod bolts and bearings. Besides 4psi on a T25 and 4psi on a GT40R are worlds apart in terms of mass flow..

Boost is but one of the many knobs you can adjust... cylinder pressure, combustion/exhaust temperature and total airflow are more accurate measures of what an engine can safely handle.

High compression will give you better off-boost power and is a reason I opt for 9.5:1 and higher where available.